View entire thread: OT - dealing with wasps at an outdoor barbecue
Posted by Leon on Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:38 PM Post subject: Re: OT - dealing with wasps at an outdoor barbecue
[quote:fa25c37d3b] The only times I've been stung was when the critter got in my clothes. Wasp in my collar, and
a bumble bee up my pant leg. The bee sting I first thought was a splinter from the railing I was sitting on. I felt
sorry for it, "just doing its thing" till I sat on it. [/quote:fa25c37d3b] I've only been stung once, on the
beach when I was a kid, when I sat on a wasp. The son of a friend of mine ran off the road into a hedge on his
motorbike when a bee got inside his visor. He gave up motorbikes after that. Leon
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View entire thread: Aluminum bronze and Copper help request
Posted by Bert on Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:42 PM Post subject: Re: Aluminum bronze and Copper help request
"Kyle Mutcher" <kmutcher@mts.net> wrote: [quote:bcf3322f2a]Hi folks, I need to anneal some Aluminium
Bronze blanks, about 30 mm in diameter and 3-5 mm thick. 1.If I heat them to a cherry red colour, what kind of pickling
solution can I use to get them to come out a nice yellow colour. [/quote:bcf3322f2a] Don't know. I've never worked with
Al bronze. [quote:bcf3322f2a]2. Is it best to go from cherry red straight to the pickling solution or should I let the
pieces cool first then put them into the pickling solution? [/quote:bcf3322f2a] Again, I don't know about Al bronze.
With copper, quenching in plain water will knock off most of the black oxide. Then the piece can be placed in the pickle
to remove the remaining red oxide. Quenching in the pickle shouldn't hurt the metal, but doing so would likely lead to
splattering of the pickle and/or the release noxious fumes/steam, so I wouldn't recommend it. [quote:bcf3322f2a]3.
What solution should I use for Copper? [/quote:bcf3322f2a] A traditional pickle for copper is sodium bisulfate (sold
under the brand name Sparex for pickling, but also available as pH Minus at pool supply or hardware stores). A warm
solution works faster. You can also use dilute (10% or less) sulfuric acid, though it's a bit more hazardous -- don't
use it if you're not familiar with the appropriate precautions for handling acids. Be aware that either of these will
eat holes in your clothes. They'll also etch the copper if it's left in the solution too long. Don't use steel utensils
to retrieve things from the pickle, unless you want them copper plated. [quote:bcf3322f2a]I have concentrated Ferric
Chloride on hand as well as HCl but I don't want to experiment with them. I use "Tarn-X" for a pickling
solution when I anneal sterling silver and 22K gold, but it doesn't seen to do much for the copper, and I know it
wouldn't work for the aluminium bronze. any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Kyle. [/quote:bcf3322f2a]
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View entire thread: New Year's Resolution
Posted by Polly Esther on Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:15 PM Post subject: New Year's Resolution
One of my Resolutions was to try something new. I bought the book, 'Let's Make Waves' by Lily Marie Amaru and her
ruler for making curvy seams. The book is nicely written, the instructions and illustrations are good-natured, easy
to understand and thorough. The ruler is also fine. I only made one block just to test the idea. Easy. Really
easy. But, I am completely underwhelmed at the results. I've put enough sleeves in Barbie doll clothes to be able
to turn curves without a bobble. Not a problem. I just wasn't very excited about the extra time it takes to cut the
seams and stitch them weighed in with the minimal results. I think I'll save the book and the ruler to give to Kate
when we head over to a quilt show together. I imagine mailing that ruler would be a pain in the neck to wrap to put in
the mail. The other 'new to me' I want to try is Marsha McCloskey's Feathered Star Quilt Blocks 1. The front of
her book warns "Really hard blocks that take a long time to make". Is she kidding? Polly
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View entire thread: OT - I'm Back
Posted by TerriLee in WA on Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:52 PM Post subject: Re: OT - I'm Back
Welcome back, Mika. Know that I'm praying for you. How awesome that his friends showed up in such quantities. Feel
free to rant/cry/scream/whatever. It will help you move forward through this crushing grief to something more like
acceptance. But don't let anyone hurry you, it needs to be progress at your pace. Email me if you want to talk. --
TerriLee in WA (state) remove the cats to reply
http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=viewAllPhotos&albumID=548330161 "Mika"
<tajmahal56@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:nuIBg.2922$9T2.1183@fe10.lga... [quote:9a25feae78]Well it has been
an extremely hectic two weeks with lots of tears, stress and emotions that I cannot even begin to describe. We made it
to Little Rock without a hitch. Our oldest son, our daughter and her baby flew down with us and youngest son met us by
the airport. So we all drove to my oldest brothers' house from there. We got there just in time to say "hi" to
everyone, change clothes and head for the funeral home. They had the casket open for family viewing so I at least got to
see my brother one last time. It was just so surreal. I still can't believe he's gone. To give you an idea of the
goodness in him, there were over 1000 people that showed up for visitation, many stood in line for over 2 hours in the
sweltering heat to pay their respects. Visitation was supposed to be from 5-8 but we didn't get out of there until
almost 10:00pm. My OB (oldest brother) rode YB's (younger brother) motorcycle in and had it parked at the end of his
casket. The funeral home was packed for the funeral too. A lot of their motorcycle buddies led the procession from the
funeral home to the cemetery and I think there were over a hundred bikes there. It was amazing. I was really upset that
morning because it rained and I didn't want the burial to be marred by rain. But it quit raining by the time we got to
the cemetery. We found out that one of the witnesses to the accident is a good friend of my parents and another witness
is a friend and co-worker of my cousin's husband. The co-worker is also a first responder and EMT. So YB was in good
hands and was alone on the highway. The police caught the truck driver, arrested her and impounded her truck. I don't
know yet if they will file charges against her or not, that is up to the prosecuting attorney. She denied even seeing
the my brother or the motorcycle but the witnesses said there is no way the she could have NOT seen it. The only thing
we can figure out is that she fell asleep at the wheel and crossed the median into YB's lane. He locked up the wheels on
his bike when he saw her and swerved into the other lane then laid his bike down. The witness said he absolutely did
everything right to avoid a collision. It's just a shame that it cost him his life. I still can't believe he's gone and
I saw him in the casket and touched his cold lifeless hand but it's still not real. Then Friday morning I sent DH and
YS off to Dallas since DH had to help his parents load up the truck with household goods to move back to Minnesota.
Saturday morning OS, daughter and baby went to the airport where I sent them back to New York and I went to Dallas to
catch up with DH. Linda, I'm so sorry that I didn't have time to call you but our plans just got totally changed when I
got word of the accident. So we packed up the truck and left early Sunday morning for Minnesota. FIL and I switched off
driving the car and DH and his oldest brother, who flew down from MN, switched off driving the truck. We got into his
sister's house Monday night, unloaded the truck Tuesday and rested a bit Wednesday. I did get to go to Hancock's in
Crystal on Wednesday and bought several yards of fabric. Then Wednesday night our friend from Council Bluffs drove up
to pick us up since we were flying out of Omaha to come home. We left Thursday to go to CB. Friday she and I hit
Hancock's there and I got a several more pieces of fabric. Then Saturday we went to the zoo for some fun that didn't
require much thinking. We saw Deep Sea in 3D at the Imax. It was great. We flew out of Omaha yesterday at 3:00. At some
point DH got a message from our daughter to call her at work so when we got to Chicago I called her to see what was up.
Things have not been going well at all for her with her boyfriend and his mother. So we told her that if she ever needed
to get out she could always come back home. So she called to say that she needed to take us up on our offer of a place
to stay. So this morning DH went over and got her and the baby and they are now living with us again. I'm glad to have
her out of that house and situation. Now comes the hard part though. It has been really difficult putting on a happy
face the past week when all I really wanted to do was lay down and cry until there were no more tears. It was so hard to
see DH and his brothers together and be reminded that my brother is gone. Even though I have DH, my oldest son and
daughter here, my family, as in parents, brother and sister are all within an hour of each other. They have each other
as a support system and I feel so totally left out and alone. How pathetic does that sound?!! But what sounds even more
pathetic is the fact that I get so angry sometimes that someone as good as my brother was taken so tragically and so
young when evil people like my DH's ex and Candy's mother are left here to continue their reign of evilness. Where is
the justice? Brother was a helper and the sheer number of people who turned out for visitation and the funeral are a
testament to his life and the people he touched. Yet DH's ex is still walking the earth continuing to come between DH
and his girls and Candy's mother is still here causing problems so that we don't get to see Logan as much as we should.
Ok I've ranted enough. I do want to thank all of you for the hugs, prayers, good thoughts and all the support you have
sent my way. It really meant a lot to me and to just say thanks seems so inadequate but I do want to thank you all from
the bottom of my heart. I will continue to hold all that support in my heart in the dark days to come and I know there
will be dark days because the depression has already set in. I just have to deal with it now. Thanks for listening
everyone and thanks for letting me get this out. I'm off to take a nap while the babies are asleep. I'm exhausted.
Hugs, Mika [/quote:9a25feae78]
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View entire thread: OT - I'm Back
Posted by Mika on Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:54 PM Post subject: OT - I'm Back
Well it has been an extremely hectic two weeks with lots of tears, stress and emotions that I cannot even begin to
describe. We made it to Little Rock without a hitch. Our oldest son, our daughter and her baby flew down with us and
youngest son met us by the airport. So we all drove to my oldest brothers' house from there. We got there just in time
to say "hi" to everyone, change clothes and head for the funeral home. They had the casket open for family
viewing so I at least got to see my brother one last time. It was just so surreal. I still can't believe he's gone. To
give you an idea of the goodness in him, there were over 1000 people that showed up for visitation, many stood in line
for over 2 hours in the sweltering heat to pay their respects. Visitation was supposed to be from 5-8 but we didn't get
out of there until almost 10:00pm. My OB (oldest brother) rode YB's (younger brother) motorcycle in and had it parked at
the end of his casket. The funeral home was packed for the funeral too. A lot of their motorcycle buddies led the
procession from the funeral home to the cemetery and I think there were over a hundred bikes there. It was amazing. I
was really upset that morning because it rained and I didn't want the burial to be marred by rain. But it quit raining
by the time we got to the cemetery. We found out that one of the witnesses to the accident is a good friend of my
parents and another witness is a friend and co-worker of my cousin's husband. The co-worker is also a first responder
and EMT. So YB was in good hands and was alone on the highway. The police caught the truck driver, arrested her and
impounded her truck. I don't know yet if they will file charges against her or not, that is up to the prosecuting
attorney. She denied even seeing the my brother or the motorcycle but the witnesses said there is no way the she could
have NOT seen it. The only thing we can figure out is that she fell asleep at the wheel and crossed the median into YB's
lane. He locked up the wheels on his bike when he saw her and swerved into the other lane then laid his bike down. The
witness said he absolutely did everything right to avoid a collision. It's just a shame that it cost him his life. I
still can't believe he's gone and I saw him in the casket and touched his cold lifeless hand but it's still not real.
Then Friday morning I sent DH and YS off to Dallas since DH had to help his parents load up the truck with household
goods to move back to Minnesota. Saturday morning OS, daughter and baby went to the airport where I sent them back to
New York and I went to Dallas to catch up with DH. Linda, I'm so sorry that I didn't have time to call you but our plans
just got totally changed when I got word of the accident. So we packed up the truck and left early Sunday morning for
Minnesota. FIL and I switched off driving the car and DH and his oldest brother, who flew down from MN, switched off
driving the truck. We got into his sister's house Monday night, unloaded the truck Tuesday and rested a bit Wednesday. I
did get to go to Hancock's in Crystal on Wednesday and bought several yards of fabric. Then Wednesday night our friend
from Council Bluffs drove up to pick us up since we were flying out of Omaha to come home. We left Thursday to go to CB.
Friday she and I hit Hancock's there and I got a several more pieces of fabric. Then Saturday we went to the zoo for
some fun that didn't require much thinking. We saw Deep Sea in 3D at the Imax. It was great. We flew out of Omaha
yesterday at 3:00. At some point DH got a message from our daughter to call her at work so when we got to Chicago I
called her to see what was up. Things have not been going well at all for her with her boyfriend and his mother. So we
told her that if she ever needed to get out she could always come back home. So she called to say that she needed to
take us up on our offer of a place to stay. So this morning DH went over and got her and the baby and they are now
living with us again. I'm glad to have her out of that house and situation. Now comes the hard part though. It has been
really difficult putting on a happy face the past week when all I really wanted to do was lay down and cry until there
were no more tears. It was so hard to see DH and his brothers together and be reminded that my brother is gone. Even
though I have DH, my oldest son and daughter here, my family, as in parents, brother and sister are all within an hour
of each other. They have each other as a support system and I feel so totally left out and alone. How pathetic does that
sound?!! But what sounds even more pathetic is the fact that I get so angry sometimes that someone as good as my brother
was taken so tragically and so young when evil people like my DH's ex and Candy's mother are left here to continue their
reign of evilness. Where is the justice? Brother was a helper and the sheer number of people who turned out for
visitation and the funeral are a testament to his life and the people he touched. Yet DH's ex is still walking the earth
continuing to come between DH and his girls and Candy's mother is still here causing problems so that we don't get to
see Logan as much as we should. Ok I've ranted enough. I do want to thank all of you for the hugs, prayers, good
thoughts and all the support you have sent my way. It really meant a lot to me and to just say thanks seems so
inadequate but I do want to thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I will continue to hold all that support in my
heart in the dark days to come and I know there will be dark days because the depression has already set in. I just have
to deal with it now. Thanks for listening everyone and thanks for letting me get this out. I'm off to take a nap while
the babies are asleep. I'm exhausted. Hugs, Mika
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View entire thread: OT - I'm Back
Posted by Kate Dicey on Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:47 PM Post subject: Re: OT - I'm Back
Mika wrote: [quote:e2d9e17f21]Well it has been an extremely hectic two weeks with lots of tears, stress and emotions
that I cannot even begin to describe. We made it to Little Rock without a hitch. Our oldest son, our daughter and her
baby flew down with us and youngest son met us by the airport. So we all drove to my oldest brothers' house from there.
We got there just in time to say "hi" to everyone, change clothes and head for the funeral home. They had the
casket open for family viewing so I at least got to see my brother one last time. It was just so surreal. I still can't
believe he's gone. To give you an idea of the goodness in him, there were over 1000 people that showed up for
visitation, many stood in line for over 2 hours in the sweltering heat to pay their respects. Visitation was supposed to
be from 5-8 but we didn't get out of there until almost 10:00pm. My OB (oldest brother) rode YB's (younger brother)
motorcycle in and had it parked at the end of his casket. [/quote:e2d9e17f21] I'm glad you got the chance to say
goodbye. I felt that was very important when we did the same for my darling MIL last summer. That cycle touch was a
very good thought. [quote:e2d9e17f21] The funeral home was packed for the funeral too. A lot of their motorcycle buddies
led the procession from the funeral home to the cemetery and I think there were over a hundred bikes there. It was
amazing. I was really upset that morning because it rained and I didn't want the burial to be marred by rain. But it
quit raining by the time we got to the cemetery. [/quote:e2d9e17f21] It's funny how those big hairy bikers really take
care of their own. You somehow don't expect it, but like us quilters, they make real communities that hang together.
It's a good feeling to have at times like this. [quote:e2d9e17f21] We found out that one of the witnesses to the
accident is a good friend of my parents and another witness is a friend and co-worker of my cousin's husband. The co-
worker is also a first responder and EMT. So YB was in good hands and was alone on the highway. The police caught the
truck driver, arrested her and impounded her truck. I don't know yet if they will file charges against her or not, that
is up to the prosecuting attorney. She denied even seeing the my brother or the motorcycle but the witnesses said there
is no way the she could have NOT seen it. The only thing we can figure out is that she fell asleep at the wheel and
crossed the median into YB's lane. He locked up the wheels on his bike when he saw her and swerved into the other lane
then laid his bike down. The witness said he absolutely did everything right to avoid a collision. It's just a shame
that it cost him his life. I still can't believe he's gone and I saw him in the casket and touched his cold lifeless
hand but it's still not real. [/quote:e2d9e17f21] It never is. Takes a good while to get used to it, especially when
it's so sudden, whatever the cause. Let it sink in slowly. [quote:e2d9e17f21] Then Friday morning I sent DH and YS off
to Dallas since DH had to help his parents load up the truck with household goods to move back to Minnesota. Saturday
morning OS, daughter and baby went to the airport where I sent them back to New York and I went to Dallas to catch up
with DH. Linda, I'm so sorry that I didn't have time to call you but our plans just got totally changed when I got word
of the accident. So we packed up the truck and left early Sunday morning for Minnesota. FIL and I switched off driving
the car and DH and his oldest brother, who flew down from MN, switched off driving the truck. We got into his sister's
house Monday night, unloaded the truck Tuesday and rested a bit Wednesday. I did get to go to Hancock's in Crystal on
Wednesday and bought several yards of fabric. Then Wednesday night our friend from Council Bluffs drove up to pick us
up since we were flying out of Omaha to come home. We left Thursday to go to CB. Friday she and I hit Hancock's there
and I got a several more pieces of fabric. Then Saturday we went to the zoo for some fun that didn't require much
thinking. We saw Deep Sea in 3D at the Imax. It was great. We flew out of Omaha yesterday at 3:00. At some point DH got
a message from our daughter to call her at work so when we got to Chicago I called her to see what was up. Things have
not been going well at all for her with her boyfriend and his mother. So we told her that if she ever needed to get out
she could always come back home. So she called to say that she needed to take us up on our offer of a place to stay. So
this morning DH went over and got her and the baby and they are now living with us again. I'm glad to have her out of
that house and situation. [/quote:e2d9e17f21] ((((((HUGS)))))) to help you all cope. [quote:e2d9e17f21] Now comes the
hard part though. It has been really difficult putting on a happy face the past week when all I really wanted to do was
lay down and cry until there were no more tears. It was so hard to see DH and his brothers together and be reminded that
my brother is gone. Even though I have DH, my oldest son and daughter here, my family, as in parents, brother and sister
are all within an hour of each other. They have each other as a support system and I feel so totally left out and alone.
How pathetic does that sound?!! But what sounds even more pathetic is the fact that I get so angry sometimes that
someone as good as my brother was taken so tragically and so young when evil people like my DH's ex and Candy's mother
are left here to continue their reign of evilness. Where is the justice? Brother was a helper and the sheer number of
people who turned out for visitation and the funeral are a testament to his life and the people he touched.
[/quote:e2d9e17f21] Anger is part of the greiving process. And do lie down and cry. You DH may be sharing a lot of
those feelings and may also feel guilt that his siblings are intact while your family is no longer whole. Share the
feelings, share the sorrow: it helps it to heal. [quote:e2d9e17f21]Yet DH's ex is still walking the earth continuing to
come between DH and his girls and Candy's mother is still here causing problems so that we don't get to see Logan as
much as we should. [/quote:e2d9e17f21] There is no justice in these things. ((((((HUGS)))))) [quote:e2d9e17f21] Ok I've
ranted enough. I do want to thank all of you for the hugs, prayers, good thoughts and all the support you have sent my
way. It really meant a lot to me and to just say thanks seems so inadequate but I do want to thank you all from the
bottom of my heart. I will continue to hold all that support in my heart in the dark days to come and I know there will
be dark days because the depression has already set in. I just have to deal with it now. Thanks for listening everyone
and thanks for letting me get this out. I'm off to take a nap while the babies are asleep. I'm exhausted.
[/quote:e2d9e17f21] Not at all surprised! You rest up - we'll be here when you wake. -- Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame
Chef des Trolls Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons http://www.katedicey.co.uk Click on Kate's
Pages and explore!
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View entire thread: OT - I'm Back
Posted by Sandy Foster on Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:25 PM Post subject: Re: OT - I'm Back
In article <nuIBg.2922$9T2.1183@fe10.lga>, "Mika" <tajmahal56@hotmail.com> wrote:
[quote:4e85800a63]Well it has been an extremely hectic two weeks with lots of tears, stress and emotions that I cannot
even begin to describe. We made it to Little Rock without a hitch. Our oldest son, our daughter and her baby flew down
with us and youngest son met us by the airport. So we all drove to my oldest brothers' house from there. We got there
just in time to say "hi" to everyone, change clothes and head for the funeral home. They had the casket open
for family viewing so I at least got to see my brother one last time. It was just so surreal. I still can't believe he's
gone. To give you an idea of the goodness in him, there were over 1000 people that showed up for visitation, many stood
in line for over 2 hours in the sweltering heat to pay their respects. Visitation was supposed to be from 5-8 but we
didn't get out of there until almost 10:00pm. My OB (oldest brother) rode YB's (younger brother) motorcycle in and had
it parked at the end of his casket. The funeral home was packed for the funeral too. A lot of their motorcycle buddies
led the procession from the funeral home to the cemetery and I think there were over a hundred bikes there. It was
amazing. I was really upset that morning because it rained and I didn't want the burial to be marred by rain. But it
quit raining by the time we got to the cemetery. We found out that one of the witnesses to the accident is a good
friend of my parents and another witness is a friend and co-worker of my cousin's husband. The co-worker is also a first
responder and EMT. So YB was in good hands and was alone on the highway. The police caught the truck driver, arrested
her and impounded her truck. I don't know yet if they will file charges against her or not, that is up to the
prosecuting attorney. She denied even seeing the my brother or the motorcycle but the witnesses said there is no way the
she could have NOT seen it. The only thing we can figure out is that she fell asleep at the wheel and crossed the median
into YB's lane. He locked up the wheels on his bike when he saw her and swerved into the other lane then laid his bike
down. The witness said he absolutely did everything right to avoid a collision. It's just a shame that it cost him his
life. I still can't believe he's gone and I saw him in the casket and touched his cold lifeless hand but it's still not
real. Then Friday morning I sent DH and YS off to Dallas since DH had to help his parents load up the truck with
household goods to move back to Minnesota. Saturday morning OS, daughter and baby went to the airport where I sent them
back to New York and I went to Dallas to catch up with DH. Linda, I'm so sorry that I didn't have time to call you but
our plans just got totally changed when I got word of the accident. So we packed up the truck and left early Sunday
morning for Minnesota. FIL and I switched off driving the car and DH and his oldest brother, who flew down from MN,
switched off driving the truck. We got into his sister's house Monday night, unloaded the truck Tuesday and rested a bit
Wednesday. I did get to go to Hancock's in Crystal on Wednesday and bought several yards of fabric. Then Wednesday
night our friend from Council Bluffs drove up to pick us up since we were flying out of Omaha to come home. We left
Thursday to go to CB. Friday she and I hit Hancock's there and I got a several more pieces of fabric. Then Saturday we
went to the zoo for some fun that didn't require much thinking. We saw Deep Sea in 3D at the Imax. It was great. We flew
out of Omaha yesterday at 3:00. At some point DH got a message from our daughter to call her at work so when we got to
Chicago I called her to see what was up. Things have not been going well at all for her with her boyfriend and his
mother. So we told her that if she ever needed to get out she could always come back home. So she called to say that
she needed to take us up on our offer of a place to stay. So this morning DH went over and got her and the baby and they
are now living with us again. I'm glad to have her out of that house and situation. Now comes the hard part though. It
has been really difficult putting on a happy face the past week when all I really wanted to do was lay down and cry
until there were no more tears. It was so hard to see DH and his brothers together and be reminded that my brother is
gone. Even though I have DH, my oldest son and daughter here, my family, as in parents, brother and sister are all
within an hour of each other. They have each other as a support system and I feel so totally left out and alone. How
pathetic does that sound?!! But what sounds even more pathetic is the fact that I get so angry sometimes that someone as
good as my brother was taken so tragically and so young when evil people like my DH's ex and Candy's mother are left
here to continue their reign of evilness. Where is the justice? Brother was a helper and the sheer number of people who
turned out for visitation and the funeral are a testament to his life and the people he touched. Yet DH's ex is still
walking the earth continuing to come between DH and his girls and Candy's mother is still here causing problems so that
we don't get to see Logan as much as we should. Ok I've ranted enough. I do want to thank all of you for the hugs,
prayers, good thoughts and all the support you have sent my way. It really meant a lot to me and to just say thanks
seems so inadequate but I do want to thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I will continue to hold all that support
in my heart in the dark days to come and I know there will be dark days because the depression has already set in. I
just have to deal with it now. Thanks for listening everyone and thanks for letting me get this out. I'm off to take a
nap while the babies are asleep. I'm exhausted. Hugs, Mika [/quote:4e85800a63] Kate has already said much of what I
would have said, Kim. My DT went through much the same thing as you are experiencing now when our DF died some years
ago. She was living so far away and had just come for a visit a month previously when DF suddenly had a fatal heart
attack; we hadn't even known he had a heart condition. She couldn't come back again for the funeral and felt guilty
and left out. I did all I could to console her via telephone, but I know she suffered. All of that is natural and
part, as Kate said, of the grieving process. I know I also felt guilty when DT's first baby (11 months old at the time)
died. After all, I had two healthy children, and she had none right then; I felt as though I should offer her one of
mine, though of course I didn't. Just know that we're all here for you. {{{{{Hugs}}}}} -- Sandy in Henderson, near
Las Vegas my ISP is earthlink.net -- put sfoster1(at) in front http://home.earthlink.net/~sfoster1 AKA Dame Sandy,
Minister of Education
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View entire thread: OT - I'm Back
Posted by IMS on Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:08 AM Post subject: Re: OT - I'm Back
Oh Mika, How wonderful that so many came to pay their last respects and to let your family know how your brother had
touched their lives. I *do* understand the tragedy of a good and decent person dying way before their time, because
someone else put them in harm's way. My heart goes out to you; there is no way to get around a loss such as this...give
yourself time and allow yourself to grieve and react to this in your own way....and if you need help, do seek it
out....there is light at the end of the tunnel. -Irene On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 10:54:11 -0400, "Mika"
<tajmahal56@hotmail.com> wrote: [quote:8afda42c8c]Well it has been an extremely hectic two weeks with lots of
tears, stress and emotions that I cannot even begin to describe. We made it to Little Rock without a hitch. Our oldest
son, our daughter and her baby flew down with us and youngest son met us by the airport. So we all drove to my oldest
brothers' house from there. We got there just in time to say "hi" to everyone, change clothes and head for the
funeral home. They had the casket open for family viewing so I at least got to see my brother one last time. It was just
so surreal. I still can't believe he's gone. To give you an idea of the goodness in him, there were over 1000 people
that showed up for visitation, many stood in line for over 2 hours in the sweltering heat to pay their respects.
Visitation was supposed to be from 5-8 but we didn't get out of there until almost 10:00pm. My OB (oldest brother) rode
YB's (younger brother) motorcycle in and had it parked at the end of his casket. The funeral home was packed for the
funeral too. A lot of their motorcycle buddies led the procession from the funeral home to the cemetery and I think
there were over a hundred bikes there. It was amazing. I was really upset that morning because it rained and I didn't
want the burial to be marred by rain. But it quit raining by the time we got to the cemetery. We found out that one of
the witnesses to the accident is a good friend of my parents and another witness is a friend and co-worker of my
cousin's husband. The co-worker is also a first responder and EMT. So YB was in good hands and was alone on the highway.
The police caught the truck driver, arrested her and impounded her truck. I don't know yet if they will file charges
against her or not, that is up to the prosecuting attorney. She denied even seeing the my brother or the motorcycle but
the witnesses said there is no way the she could have NOT seen it. The only thing we can figure out is that she fell
asleep at the wheel and crossed the median into YB's lane. He locked up the wheels on his bike when he saw her and
swerved into the other lane then laid his bike down. The witness said he absolutely did everything right to avoid a
collision. It's just a shame that it cost him his life. I still can't believe he's gone and I saw him in the casket and
touched his cold lifeless hand but it's still not real. Then Friday morning I sent DH and YS off to Dallas since DH had
to help his parents load up the truck with household goods to move back to Minnesota. Saturday morning OS, daughter and
baby went to the airport where I sent them back to New York and I went to Dallas to catch up with DH. Linda, I'm so
sorry that I didn't have time to call you but our plans just got totally changed when I got word of the accident. So we
packed up the truck and left early Sunday morning for Minnesota. FIL and I switched off driving the car and DH and his
oldest brother, who flew down from MN, switched off driving the truck. We got into his sister's house Monday night,
unloaded the truck Tuesday and rested a bit Wednesday. I did get to go to Hancock's in Crystal on Wednesday and bought
several yards of fabric. Then Wednesday night our friend from Council Bluffs drove up to pick us up since we were
flying out of Omaha to come home. We left Thursday to go to CB. Friday she and I hit Hancock's there and I got a several
more pieces of fabric. Then Saturday we went to the zoo for some fun that didn't require much thinking. We saw Deep Sea
in 3D at the Imax. It was great. We flew out of Omaha yesterday at 3:00. At some point DH got a message from our
daughter to call her at work so when we got to Chicago I called her to see what was up. Things have not been going well
at all for her with her boyfriend and his mother. So we told her that if she ever needed to get out she could always
come back home. So she called to say that she needed to take us up on our offer of a place to stay. So this morning DH
went over and got her and the baby and they are now living with us again. I'm glad to have her out of that house and
situation. Now comes the hard part though. It has been really difficult putting on a happy face the past week when all
I really wanted to do was lay down and cry until there were no more tears. It was so hard to see DH and his brothers
together and be reminded that my brother is gone. Even though I have DH, my oldest son and daughter here, my family, as
in parents, brother and sister are all within an hour of each other. They have each other as a support system and I feel
so totally left out and alone. How pathetic does that sound?!! But what sounds even more pathetic is the fact that I get
so angry sometimes that someone as good as my brother was taken so tragically and so young when evil people like my DH's
ex and Candy's mother are left here to continue their reign of evilness. Where is the justice? Brother was a helper and
the sheer number of people who turned out for visitation and the funeral are a testament to his life and the people he
touched. Yet DH's ex is still walking the earth continuing to come between DH and his girls and Candy's mother is still
here causing problems so that we don't get to see Logan as much as we should. Ok I've ranted enough. I do want to thank
all of you for the hugs, prayers, good thoughts and all the support you have sent my way. It really meant a lot to me
and to just say thanks seems so inadequate but I do want to thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I will continue
to hold all that support in my heart in the dark days to come and I know there will be dark days because the depression
has already set in. I just have to deal with it now. Thanks for listening everyone and thanks for letting me get this
out. I'm off to take a nap while the babies are asleep. I'm exhausted. Hugs, Mika [/quote:8afda42c8c] --------------
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough. --Mae West --------------
back to top
View entire thread: OT - I'm Back
Posted by desert quilter on Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:02 PM Post subject: Re: OT - I'm Back
Mika, I am so sorry for your loss. Unfortunately, I have no words of wisdom to offer. This just sucks! And there's
nothing to do but go forward. I must say, I was very touched by the obvious love and respect so many have your brother.
You must have many wonderful memories of him. One day the loss won't be as acute, and you will be able to enjoy them
without such sadness. Michelle in NV Mika wrote: [quote:ac8e232727]Well it has been an extremely hectic two weeks with
lots of tears, stress and emotions that I cannot even begin to describe. We made it to Little Rock without a hitch. Our
oldest son, our daughter and her baby flew down with us and youngest son met us by the airport. So we all drove to my
oldest brothers' house from there. We got there just in time to say "hi" to everyone, change clothes and head
for the funeral home. They had the casket open for family viewing so I at least got to see my brother one last time. It
was just so surreal. I still can't believe he's gone. To give you an idea of the goodness in him, there were over 1000
people that showed up for visitation, many stood in line for over 2 hours in the sweltering heat to pay their respects.
Visitation was supposed to be from 5-8 but we didn't get out of there until almost 10:00pm. My OB (oldest brother) rode
YB's (younger brother) motorcycle in and had it parked at the end of his casket. The funeral home was packed for the
funeral too. A lot of their motorcycle buddies led the procession from the funeral home to the cemetery and I think
there were over a hundred bikes there. It was amazing. I was really upset that morning because it rained and I didn't
want the burial to be marred by rain. But it quit raining by the time we got to the cemetery. We found out that one of
the witnesses to the accident is a good friend of my parents and another witness is a friend and co-worker of my
cousin's husband. The co-worker is also a first responder and EMT. So YB was in good hands and was alone on the highway.
The police caught the truck driver, arrested her and impounded her truck. I don't know yet if they will file charges
against her or not, that is up to the prosecuting attorney. She denied even seeing the my brother or the motorcycle but
the witnesses said there is no way the she could have NOT seen it. The only thing we can figure out is that she fell
asleep at the wheel and crossed the median into YB's lane. He locked up the wheels on his bike when he saw her and
swerved into the other lane then laid his bike down. The witness said he absolutely did everything right to avoid a
collision. It's just a shame that it cost him his life. I still can't believe he's gone and I saw him in the casket and
touched his cold lifeless hand but it's still not real. Then Friday morning I sent DH and YS off to Dallas since DH had
to help his parents load up the truck with household goods to move back to Minnesota. Saturday morning OS, daughter and
baby went to the airport where I sent them back to New York and I went to Dallas to catch up with DH. Linda, I'm so
sorry that I didn't have time to call you but our plans just got totally changed when I got word of the accident. So we
packed up the truck and left early Sunday morning for Minnesota. FIL and I switched off driving the car and DH and his
oldest brother, who flew down from MN, switched off driving the truck. We got into his sister's house Monday night,
unloaded the truck Tuesday and rested a bit Wednesday. I did get to go to Hancock's in Crystal on Wednesday and bought
several yards of fabric. Then Wednesday night our friend from Council Bluffs drove up to pick us up since we were
flying out of Omaha to come home. We left Thursday to go to CB. Friday she and I hit Hancock's there and I got a several
more pieces of fabric. Then Saturday we went to the zoo for some fun that didn't require much thinking. We saw Deep Sea
in 3D at the Imax. It was great. We flew out of Omaha yesterday at 3:00. At some point DH got a message from our
daughter to call her at work so when we got to Chicago I called her to see what was up. Things have not been going well
at all for her with her boyfriend and his mother. So we told her that if she ever needed to get out she could always
come back home. So she called to say that she needed to take us up on our offer of a place to stay. So this morning DH
went over and got her and the baby and they are now living with us again. I'm glad to have her out of that house and
situation. Now comes the hard part though. It has been really difficult putting on a happy face the past week when all
I really wanted to do was lay down and cry until there were no more tears. It was so hard to see DH and his brothers
together and be reminded that my brother is gone. Even though I have DH, my oldest son and daughter here, my family, as
in parents, brother and sister are all within an hour of each other. They have each other as a support system and I feel
so totally left out and alone. How pathetic does that sound?!! But what sounds even more pathetic is the fact that I get
so angry sometimes that someone as good as my brother was taken so tragically and so young when evil people like my DH's
ex and Candy's mother are left here to continue their reign of evilness. Where is the justice? Brother was a helper and
the sheer number of people who turned out for visitation and the funeral are a testament to his life and the people he
touched. Yet DH's ex is still walking the earth continuing to come between DH and his girls and Candy's mother is still
here causing problems so that we don't get to see Logan as much as we should. Ok I've ranted enough. I do want to thank
all of you for the hugs, prayers, good thoughts and all the support you have sent my way. It really meant a lot to me
and to just say thanks seems so inadequate but I do want to thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I will continue
to hold all that support in my heart in the dark days to come and I know there will be dark days because the depression
has already set in. I just have to deal with it now. Thanks for listening everyone and thanks for letting me get this
out. I'm off to take a nap while the babies are asleep. I'm exhausted. Hugs, Mika[/quote:ac8e232727]
back to top
View entire thread: OT - I'm Back
Posted by Donna in NE La. on Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:25 PM Post subject: Re: OT - I'm Back
{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}} -- Donna in NE La. "Mika" <tajmahal56@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nuIBg.2922$9T2.1183@fe10.lga... [quote:876d1614b8]Well it has been an extremely hectic two weeks with lots of
tears, stress and emotions that I cannot even begin to describe. We made it to Little Rock without a hitch. Our oldest
son, our daughter and her baby flew down with us and youngest son met us by the airport. So we all drove to my oldest
brothers' house from there. We got there just in time to say "hi" to everyone, change clothes and head for the
funeral home. They had the casket open for family viewing so I at least got to see my brother one last time. It was just
so surreal. I still can't believe he's gone. To give you an idea of the goodness in him, there were over 1000 people
that showed up for visitation, many stood in line for over 2 hours in the sweltering heat to pay their respects.
Visitation was supposed to be from 5-8 but we didn't get out of there until almost 10:00pm. My OB (oldest brother) rode
YB's (younger brother) motorcycle in and had it parked at the end of his casket. The funeral home was packed for the
funeral too. A lot of their motorcycle buddies led the procession from the funeral home to the cemetery and I think
there were over a hundred bikes there. It was amazing. I was really upset that morning because it rained and I didn't
want the burial to be marred by rain. But it quit raining by the time we got to the cemetery. We found out that one of
the witnesses to the accident is a good friend of my parents and another witness is a friend and co-worker of my
cousin's husband. The co-worker is also a first responder and EMT. So YB was in good hands and was alone on the highway.
The police caught the truck driver, arrested her and impounded her truck. I don't know yet if they will file charges
against her or not, that is up to the prosecuting attorney. She denied even seeing the my brother or the motorcycle but
the witnesses said there is no way the she could have NOT seen it. The only thing we can figure out is that she fell
asleep at the wheel and crossed the median into YB's lane. He locked up the wheels on his bike when he saw her and
swerved into the other lane then laid his bike down. The witness said he absolutely did everything right to avoid a
collision. It's just a shame that it cost him his life. I still can't believe he's gone and I saw him in the casket and
touched his cold lifeless hand but it's still not real. Then Friday morning I sent DH and YS off to Dallas since DH had
to help his parents load up the truck with household goods to move back to Minnesota. Saturday morning OS, daughter and
baby went to the airport where I sent them back to New York and I went to Dallas to catch up with DH. Linda, I'm so
sorry that I didn't have time to call you but our plans just got totally changed when I got word of the accident. So we
packed up the truck and left early Sunday morning for Minnesota. FIL and I switched off driving the car and DH and his
oldest brother, who flew down from MN, switched off driving the truck. We got into his sister's house Monday night,
unloaded the truck Tuesday and rested a bit Wednesday. I did get to go to Hancock's in Crystal on Wednesday and bought
several yards of fabric. Then Wednesday night our friend from Council Bluffs drove up to pick us up since we were
flying out of Omaha to come home. We left Thursday to go to CB. Friday she and I hit Hancock's there and I got a several
more pieces of fabric. Then Saturday we went to the zoo for some fun that didn't require much thinking. We saw Deep Sea
in 3D at the Imax. It was great. We flew out of Omaha yesterday at 3:00. At some point DH got a message from our
daughter to call her at work so when we got to Chicago I called her to see what was up. Things have not been going well
at all for her with her boyfriend and his mother. So we told her that if she ever needed to get out she could always
come back home. So she called to say that she needed to take us up on our offer of a place to stay. So this morning DH
went over and got her and the baby and they are now living with us again. I'm glad to have her out of that house and
situation. Now comes the hard part though. It has been really difficult putting on a happy face the past week when all
I really wanted to do was lay down and cry until there were no more tears. It was so hard to see DH and his brothers
together and be reminded that my brother is gone. Even though I have DH, my oldest son and daughter here, my family, as
in parents, brother and sister are all within an hour of each other. They have each other as a support system and I feel
so totally left out and alone. How pathetic does that sound?!! But what sounds even more pathetic is the fact that I get
so angry sometimes that someone as good as my brother was taken so tragically and so young when evil people like my DH's
ex and Candy's mother are left here to continue their reign of evilness. Where is the justice? Brother was a helper and
the sheer number of people who turned out for visitation and the funeral are a testament to his life and the people he
touched. Yet DH's ex is still walking the earth continuing to come between DH and his girls and Candy's mother is still
here causing problems so that we don't get to see Logan as much as we should. Ok I've ranted enough. I do want to thank
all of you for the hugs, prayers, good thoughts and all the support you have sent my way. It really meant a lot to me
and to just say thanks seems so inadequate but I do want to thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I will continue
to hold all that support in my heart in the dark days to come and I know there will be dark days because the depression
has already set in. I just have to deal with it now. Thanks for listening everyone and thanks for letting me get this
out. I'm off to take a nap while the babies are asleep. I'm exhausted. Hugs, Mika [/quote:876d1614b8]
back to top
View entire thread: OT: today
Posted by nzlstar* on Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:03 AM Post subject: Re: today
i know bout the weight allowance. the cost for excess weight from usa to nz on air nz is $60 a kg (2.2lbs). i wont go
over that for sure. stop buying before then which is soon. i can now take 2 suitcases of max size, the one i have now
fits that and max weight for free of #50 each. the big red one holds that when i pack it right, i repacked it wrong at
Paulettes. so will fix that. i also have my vase in box for carry on, meets that weight allowance too, only 7kg int'l ,
hope its the same inside usa, if not.... the other bag i have is the one i usually use as a carry on, why i brought it i
have no idea at all. totally stupid of me. no way will it hold the #50 i am allowed now. it will fit, if i cut the upper
one and half inches off the bottom of the box, replace lid, put it into the black carry on bag and then... get new
bigger suitcase to put rest of purchases into. dont think i'll be getting much at Houston tho, not now anyhow. should
get me home intact that way without worrying bout the shipped stuff. from now on i wont take home fabric from here to
home, just travel light and see the world, no weight to carry. how long can one live in the same three sets of clothes,
hmmmmmm. well, time to find a way west from here so i'll say goodnight and do some googling etc. good night all, jeanne
Pat in Virginia wrote: [quote:eb4a4f024f]Be sure to buy very light weight luggage, perhaps a duffle bag, as Denny
suggested. If the bag you currently own is on heavy side, consider buying two of the lightest duffles available, leaving
the heavy one in the US. Have a good time .... and welcome to Virginia!! PAT in VA/US PS: If you get a better price on
flight to Houston International (GH Bush) Airport, that might work better. Then you can just take a shuttle to your
destination. That is what I am doing this year. See ya in Texas! nzlstar* wrote: i'm showered, hair is washed, all
packed (the big suitcase was 48# when i left columbux but i repacked badly it seems as it now weighs in at 65#--ish.
gonna have to repack that and get a bigger suitcase while in VA. also gotta book flight into Hobby Airport in Houston if
i can. tis easier for pick up i'm told. never heard of that airport but thats not saying much as i've never been to
Houston before, lol. hugz and see you soon. :) jeanne[/quote:eb4a4f024f]
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View entire thread: OT: today
Posted by nzlstar* on Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:15 AM Post subject: Re: today
i will fit it all in two suitcases and one carry on and struggle thru the various airports as i always do somehow. last
yr i only fell down one time at the bottom of the escalator in SFO on the flight in from SEA-TAC on the last day there.
luckily someone pulled me up before my hair got stuck in the stairs. just in time as there were folks behind me coming
down, lol. i somehow make it. heck what else can i do really but 'just do it' i dont think i'll be getting much at
Houston tho. now i've got around...lets see, 65+24 but that is including my carry on. i'll figure it out somehow, might
be wearing some stuff home over my jacket and as many layers of clothes as i can get on at once. hells bells its only
for a day or two of flying. no worrys, i'll make it cuz i have to make it. hugz, jeanne Tina wrote:
[quote:ae73268232]Isn't shipping stuff back home an option? Or is that too expensive? My lands, how on earth will you
get all the stuff home from Houston after the Show if you don't ship stuff home? There's no WAY you can carry all that
stuff !!!!!! Tina nzlstar* wrote: all packed (the big suitcase was 48# when i left columbux but i repacked badly it
seems as it now weighs in at 65#--ish. gonna have to repack that and get a bigger suitcase while in
VA.[/quote:ae73268232]
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View entire thread: OFF TOPIC - why me VENTING
Posted by ellice on Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:56 PM Post subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - why me VENTING
On 10/16/06 11:32 AM, "Bruce" <ricardianteeth@btinternet.com> wrote: [quote:778cd516cb]ellice wrote:
The US version is a longer show, and there's more background and detail about what isn't working, and what will &
why. But, they're really good about telling people what type of jeans/fit should work for them. I think people either
hate them or love them. In this household we love them. Plus, the woman, Stacie, has the best legs on some nice Jewish
girl from NY that I've ever seen - so I'm completely jealous. I do think they're a bit unreasonable on the heels for
shoes, but they do point out that you can be comfortable in clothes/shoes that look good - if you buy things that fit,
and if you need tailoring - get it. I remember as a kid/teen - sometimes clothes had to be hemmed, or sleeves/cuffs
adjusted. We've become so ready-to-wear that people forget those little details can make the difference in how
something suits you, and are pretty easy to take care of. It puts me in mind of my cousin in the 1960s. He came home
and proudly showed his mother his new, expensive denim jacket and jeans. His mother, a very practical lady, said
"My word, they remind me of the stuff your father used to wear those when he was an apprentice engineer during the
war. We'd just got married & I had to clean them by spreading them out in the backyard and scrubbing them with a
stiff broom and soap." [/quote:778cd516cb] I can totally see that. My parents used to call them dungarees when I
was young - and that's what I wore at the barn when a little kiddie (breeches were for special days). My UK jeans story
- when I was working/living in Southend (working nearby) - I generally wore casual clothes to work, and would have a
jumpsuit (boiler-suit) over my clothes while in the field or getting dirty. But, at lunch, while the techs all stayed
around our area, I generally would meet the scientist/engineers (office types) at the commissary for a quick feed (and
cider). I think I was the only one in there ever in jeans (not horrid ones, but). Anyhow, later one day the senior
scientist that was my adopted dad (so to speak) wanted me to just meet up with the family/friends and we'd all go to a
restaurant for dinner (instead of the usual tea and supper later). But, I was in jeans - nice jeans - not work type,
faded or torn - but some kind of more designer-ish. Well, I asked could I just come as is in my jeans (this was over
the phone from my more remote site and if I'd have to go all the way across the towns to my hotel it would be a while).
He quite sternly said "ellice - you cannot wear jeans" - implying that I was in my field gear. My response
"But they're not Levi's..." trying to explain that they were like nice trousers, but denim as opposed to my
rough, faded, etc Levi's. Well, he clearly misheard me, and for the ensuing 15 years made fun of me at every chance, no
matter what level the meeting, conference, or just at some joint work - thinking I'd said "But they're Levi's"
- as Americans are supposedly so proud of Levi Strauss. Thing was - I don't/didn't really wear much Levi's - but all
the British crew were constantly having me bring them brand name Levi's back from the states. And no amount of my
explaining as to what I'd said would ever convince him! In the end - I do believe I sped on home (to the hotel I was
living in) and then back to meet our little group for a lovely dinner out. ellice
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View entire thread: OFF TOPIC - why me VENTING
Posted by Bruce on Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:32 PM Post subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - why me VENTING
ellice wrote: [quote:dea5e2749e]The US version is a longer show, and there's more background and detail about what isn't
working, and what will & why. But, they're really good about telling people what type of jeans/fit should work for
them. I think people either hate them or love them. In this household we love them. Plus, the woman, Stacie, has the
best legs on some nice Jewish girl from NY that I've ever seen - so I'm completely jealous. I do think they're a bit
unreasonable on the heels for shoes, but they do point out that you can be comfortable in clothes/shoes that look good -
if you buy things that fit, and if you need tailoring - get it. I remember as a kid/teen - sometimes clothes had to be
hemmed, or sleeves/cuffs adjusted. We've become so ready-to-wear that people forget those little details can make the
difference in how something suits you, and are pretty easy to take care of. [/quote:dea5e2749e] It puts me in mind of my
cousin in the 1960s. He came home and proudly showed his mother his new, expensive denim jacket and jeans. His
mother, a very practical lady, said "My word, they remind me of the stuff your father used to wear those when he
was an apprentice engineer during the war. We'd just got married & I had to clean them by spreading them out in
the backyard and scrubbing them with a stiff broom and soap." -- Bruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney (Remove teeth to
reply)
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View entire thread: OFF TOPIC - why me VENTING
Posted by ellice on Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:55 PM Post subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - why me VENTING
On 10/15/06 7:44 AM, "Cheryl Isaak" <cherylisaak@adelphia.net> wrote: [quote:0593db09ec]Mine was
merely an extra large PITA (especially since none of the pants is the "right" color blue jeans). HUGSSS
Cheryl [/quote:0593db09ec] ROFLMAO - the right color. Perfect. DH has gotten to the point where he holds up the jeans
he's thinking of and asks if those are the right ones to wear for wherever we're going. Then - we have the shirt
discussion. Because - the jeans have to be the right wash, and the right waistband - are they low rise, or mid-rise, -
his "casual" baggier ones, or more "dressy" jeans, and then there are the ripped ones that have only
limited uses...And can he wear an "outie" shirt, or is it an innie, and half the time I'll be saying - it's
fine - just leave it out - as he's scrunched some polo shirt menat to be out into his jeans. Another goalie quirk.
Nest - my favorite question - "I won't look like BlueBoy if I wear this shirt/sweater with these jeans? It's not
too grey or blue or ...?" Usually he's just fine - and certainly picks out his own clothes for work. But, when
we're going out - going to the CAPS games is a social event, too - we go through getting the dressy casual look in
jeans. Anyhow - I just burst out laughing because this all stems from a couple of years back when he put on some polo
shirt that was the almost exact color of the jeans - and I told him he looked like an extra from the Blue Man group (he
did - without the hoodie thing). So, now, he's become a PITA asking all the time. And what's worse - if I say - just
grab the blue & black chenille sweater - he'll then question me - are you sure it's not too blue... I won't look
like blueman - or a blueberry. Actually, I should say - DH is pretty intelligent, and quite competent on his own - it's
kind of endearing - and I think this comes from the "I'm a boy, what do I know" point of view, and his having
been a bachelor well into his 30s. Plus - he does clean up really well - so is actually pretty conscientious about his
"good" clothes. Just the jean thing cracks me up - and I can totally see Kurt worrying about which
"color" ... Of course, if you ever watch TLC's "What Not to Wear" - you'll start noticing as well.
ellice [quote:0593db09ec]On 10/14/06 11:14 AM, in article 1160838864.484250.6600@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
"lvann@adelphia.net" lvann@adelphia.net> wrote: Cheryl, Big hugs coming from my house to yours. We have
had a horrendous week as well and the family is still realing from it. Hopefully things will calm down for both of us
this weekend. Larisa Cheryl Isaak wrote: Ok, last night, it was shaping up to be a quiet morning - a bit of housework,
maybe read, stitch or work in the garden and then get DS to hockey - for the high school. Last night around 7:30 PM,
just I was going to call in DH's meds, the phone rings. DS has torn his ONLY pair of jeans and needs pants. Dad is
having dinner with friends. Mumble, I haven't even had dinner yet. Get DD dressed and find some shoes and a pair of
shorts for him and drive to the rink. Inspect torn pants - sure they just split - during some sort of horseplay, from
waist band to crotch. So, shortly, I'll take a shower, vacuum and go see if I can find another pair or three of
jeans.... Grumble. That said, remember all my misgivings last year. So far, grades are good, the moodiness has
lessened and he's a good boy to his mother other than not recycling the endless bottles of Gatorade and chocolate milk
post rink time. Cheryl [/quote:0593db09ec]
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View entire thread: OFF TOPIC - why me VENTING
Posted by Cheryl Isaak on Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:36 AM Post subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - why me VENTING
On 10/15/06 9:55 AM, in article C157B601.1335%egirl22@verizon.net, "ellice" <egirl22@verizon.net> wrote:
[quote:e570d37b84]On 10/15/06 7:44 AM, "Cheryl Isaak" <cherylisaak@adelphia.net> wrote: Mine was
merely an extra large PITA (especially since none of the pants is the "right" color blue jeans). HUGSSS
Cheryl ROFLMAO - the right color. Perfect. DH has gotten to the point where he holds up the jeans he's thinking of
and asks if those are the right ones to wear for wherever we're going. Then - we have the shirt discussion. Because -
the jeans have to be the right wash, and the right waistband - are they low rise, or mid-rise, - his "casual"
baggier ones, or more "dressy" jeans, and then there are the ripped ones that have only limited uses...And can
he wear an "outie" shirt, or is it an innie, and half the time I'll be saying - it's fine - just leave it out
- as he's scrunched some polo shirt menat to be out into his jeans. Another goalie quirk. Sigh! and they say that women
are bad Nest - my favorite question - "I won't look like BlueBoy if I wear this shirt/sweater with these jeans?
It's not too grey or blue or ...?" Usually he's just fine - and certainly picks out his own clothes for work. But,
when we're going out - going to the CAPS games is a social event, too - we go through getting the dressy casual look in
jeans. Anyhow - I just burst out laughing because this all stems from a couple of years back when he put on some polo
shirt that was the almost exact color of the jeans - and I told him he looked like an extra from the Blue Man group (he
did - without the hoodie thing). So, now, he's become a PITA asking all the time. And what's worse - if I say - just
grab the blue & black chenille sweater - he'll then question me - are you sure it's not too blue... I won't look
like blueman - or a blueberry. Snort! Actually, I should say - DH is pretty intelligent, and quite competent on his own
- it's kind of endearing - and I think this comes from the "I'm a boy, what do I know" point of view, and his
having been a bachelor well into his 30s. Plus - he does clean up really well - so is actually pretty conscientious
about his "good" clothes. Just the jean thing cracks me up - and I can totally see Kurt worrying about which
"color" ... Of course, if you ever watch TLC's "What Not to Wear" - you'll start noticing as well.
ellice [/quote:e570d37b84] He watches the BBC version with me - I haven't seen the US one. Suppose I should. C
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View entire thread: OFF TOPIC - why me VENTING
Posted by ellice on Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:10 PM Post subject: Re: OFF TOPIC - why me VENTING
On 10/16/06 6:36 AM, "Cheryl Isaak" <cherylisaak@adelphia.net> wrote: [quote:a030819fd9]On 10/15/06
9:55 AM, in article C157B601.1335%egirl22@verizon.net, "ellice" egirl22@verizon.net> wrote: On 10/15/06
7:44 AM, "Cheryl Isaak" <cherylisaak@adelphia.net> wrote: Mine was merely an extra large PITA
(especially since none of the pants is the "right" color blue jeans). HUGSSS Cheryl ROFLMAO - the right
color. Perfect. DH has gotten to the point where he holds up the jeans he's thinking of and asks if those are the
right ones to wear for wherever we're going. Then - we have the shirt discussion. Because - the jeans have to be the
right wash, and the right waistband - are they low rise, or mid-rise, - his "casual" baggier ones, or more
"dressy" jeans, and then there are the ripped ones that have only limited uses...And can he wear an
"outie" shirt, or is it an innie, and half the time I'll be saying - it's fine - just leave it out - as he's
scrunched some polo shirt menat to be out into his jeans. Another goalie quirk. Sigh! and they say that women are bad
Nest - my favorite question - "I won't look like BlueBoy if I wear this shirt/sweater with these jeans? It's not
too grey or blue or ...?" Usually he's just fine - and certainly picks out his own clothes for work. But, when
we're going out - going to the CAPS games is a social event, too - we go through getting the dressy casual look in
jeans. Anyhow - I just burst out laughing because this all stems from a couple of years back when he put on some polo
shirt that was the almost exact color of the jeans - and I told him he looked like an extra from the Blue Man group (he
did - without the hoodie thing). So, now, he's become a PITA asking all the time. And what's worse - if I say - just
grab the blue & black chenille sweater - he'll then question me - are you sure it's not too blue... I won't look
like blueman - or a blueberry. Snort! Actually, I should say - DH is pretty intelligent, and quite competent on his own
- it's kind of endearing - and I think this comes from the "I'm a boy, what do I know" point of view, and his
having been a bachelor well into his 30s. Plus - he does clean up really well - so is actually pretty conscientious
about his "good" clothes. Just the jean thing cracks me up - and I can totally see Kurt worrying about which
"color" ... Of course, if you ever watch TLC's "What Not to Wear" - you'll start noticing as well.
ellice He watches the BBC version with me - I haven't seen the US one. Suppose I should. C The US version is a
longer show, and there's more background and detail[/quote:a030819fd9] about what isn't working, and what will &
why. But, they're really good about telling people what type of jeans/fit should work for them. I think people either
hate them or love them. In this household we love them. Plus, the woman, Stacie, has the best legs on some nice Jewish
girl from NY that I've ever seen - so I'm completely jealous. I do think they're a bit unreasonable on the heels for
shoes, but they do point out that you can be comfortable in clothes/shoes that look good - if you buy things that fit,
and if you need tailoring - get it. I remember as a kid/teen - sometimes clothes had to be hemmed, or sleeves/cuffs
adjusted. We've become so ready-to-wear that people forget those little details can make the difference in how
something suits you, and are pretty easy to take care of. ellice
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View entire thread: Black Magic or valid medical device?
Posted by Gunner on Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:05 AM Post subject: Re: Black Magic or valid medical device?
On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 14:14:28 -0700, Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote: [quote:7d4558d1c2]On Tue,
03 Oct 2006 07:46:28 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Eric R Snow <etpm@whidbey.com> quickly quoth: When
SWMBO broke her arm a couple years ago, I learned all those things about brassiers that I missed fifty years ago -
namely how to put them on. Gerry :-)} London, Canada I never learnt how to take 'em off. At least not easily. My wife
takes hers off with one hand. Kinda like magic. Oh, poor Eric! I learned how to remove bras with either hand (the
other was always busy, too) and with my teeth by the time I was 17. That last one impressed the ladies something fierce,
as does the cherry stem trick (tying a knot in it with the tongue.) Women do love their animals. <g
[/quote:7d4558d1c2] One of my lady friends was trying on clothes at the Salvation Army, and was wearing what appeared
to be a 4 hooker. I reached through the curtain and did a fast one hand unhook, and a second later she came out wearing
a bathing suit top, which promptly headed for the floor, with about 15 people standing around. All I could do is
shrug..and not admit a thing. I used to be pretty good one handed..even did a 5 hook once on a fat chick Shrug..like
riding a bicycle. Though..to be fair..the ones that hook in the front are a great improvement. Gunner "If I'm
going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun
while they're around." "Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode`
(out of fashion). -Buddy Jordan 2001
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View entire thread: Black Magic or valid medical device?
Posted by Larry Jaques on Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:38 PM Post subject: Re: Black Magic or valid medical device?
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 05:05:19 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner <gunnerNOSPAM@lightspeed.net> quickly
quoth: [quote:5994c095a6]On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 14:14:28 -0700, Larry Jaques Oh, poor Eric! I learned how to remove bras
with either hand (the other was always busy, too) and with my teeth by the time I was 17. That last one impressed the
ladies something fierce, as does the cherry stem trick (tying a knot in it with the tongue.) Women do love their
animals. <g One of my lady friends was trying on clothes at the Salvation Army, and was wearing what appeared to be
a 4 hooker. I reached through the curtain and did a fast one hand unhook, and a second later she came out wearing a
bathing suit top, which promptly headed for the floor, with about 15 people standing around. All I could do is
shrug..and not admit a thing. [/quote:5994c095a6] Good 'un! [quote:5994c095a6]I used to be pretty good one
handed..even did a 5 hook once on a fat chick [/quote:5994c095a6] Well, at least you didn't cop to UNhooking a fat
chick's bra. [quote:5994c095a6]Shrug..like riding a bicycle. Though..to be fair..the ones that hook in the front are a
great improvement. [/quote:5994c095a6] They're the type I prefer to do with my teeth. ;)
------------------------------------------------------ No matter how hard you try, you cannot baptize a cat.
---------------------------- http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
---------------------------------------------------
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View entire thread: OT - Cell phone makers fight resales
Posted by Larry on Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:23 AM Post subject: Re: OT - Cell phone makers fight resales
"Dave August" <august@NOSPAMacmesi.com> wrote in news:mk4Og.942$TV3.880@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
[quote:46f17af367]The number you are looking for is $10,000.00, or in slang Ten Grand, 10 Large, 10G's, 10K Any
Deposit or WITHDRAWAL of 10G's in cash OR wiretransfer...is an automatic red flag.. who are you, what do you want it
for, let me call the FBI & HLS... Ya shouldn't have asked the cops, ask yer bank.... [/quote:46f17af367] I ran
into this at the bank when I sold my historic pig....er, ah, historic home in Downtown Charleston..... Just for fun,
and to the astonishment of my wife at the time, I took the law firm's check to his bank across the street, stood in
line with everyone else and handed it over to the teller like any other check. Of course, actually working for the
Federal Reserve Bank, the Illuminati bankers who really run the country because they control all the wealth and print
all the money, she refused until she got permission from them to cash my worthless check. I had to fill out an IRS
Gestapo form to get permission to hold my own money. (The Gestapo can't stand it when ordinary Americans have control
of their own money, not the Illuminati.) I went back the next day and stuffed the $100 bills, the largest bills
Americans are allowed to possess, into a symbolic paper bag. We dumped it all out on the dining room table and threw
it around before bagging it all back up. Refusing to allow me to keep it, out of some guilt trip I think the Catholic
Church had instilled in her, she made me deposit it in our bank, once again turning control of it over to the Illumnati
bankers and Government Bureaucrats. It was only $39K and change....(c; But, as no banks were involved with the guys
on the train, this was not a withdrawl or wire transfer through the Illuminati's Federal Reserve private bank. They
simply had cash in their hands and the Gestapo wanted it. Today, I heard more disturbing news..... A guy had been
arrested for "possession of childrens' clothes"! This makes me nervous because I collect, and sometimes buy
from thrift shops, childrens' clothes to give to my buddy's girls who have virtually nothing because of their broken
home. I didn't know the Gestapo would bust me for these size 10 Mudd Jeans or the Adidas tennis shoes with the pink
stripes! I may have to ditch them in the river! And, a school guidance counselor is defending himself in court for
having discussed sex with a 15-year-old male student, who probably, at that age, has a constant erection like I did
when I was 15! They're trying to give him 10 years in prison! Isn't this kind of thing a GUIDANCE COUNSELOR is
supposed to do....Guide and Counsel? What about the sex education teachers?! They're all talking about SEX with
STUDENTS! Do we jail 'em all? The whole damned country has gone just bloody nuts! -- There's amazing intelligence
in the Universe. You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.
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View entire thread: OT - Cell phone makers fight resales
Posted by Ignoramus7715 on Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:30 AM Post subject: Re: OT - Cell phone makers fight resales
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 00:23:17 -0400, Larry <noone@home.com> wrote: [quote:994f130c76]"Dave August"
<august@NOSPAMacmesi.com> wrote in news:mk4Og.942$TV3.880@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com: The number you are looking
for is $10,000.00, or in slang Ten Grand, 10 Large, 10G's, 10K Any Deposit or WITHDRAWAL of 10G's in cash OR
wiretransfer...is an automatic red flag.. who are you, what do you want it for, let me call the FBI & HLS... Ya
shouldn't have asked the cops, ask yer bank.... I ran into this at the bank when I sold my historic pig....er, ah,
historic home in Downtown Charleston..... Just for fun, and to the astonishment of my wife at the time, I took the law
firm's check to his bank across the street, stood in line with everyone else and handed it over to the teller like any
other check. Of course, actually working for the Federal Reserve Bank, the Illuminati bankers who really run the
country because they control all the wealth and print all the money, she refused until she got permission from them to
cash my worthless check. I had to fill out an IRS Gestapo form to get permission to hold my own money. (The Gestapo
can't stand it when ordinary Americans have control of their own money, not the Illuminati.) [/quote:994f130c76] True.
If people really control their money, many things that include colecting taxes, would become difficult (and perhaps that
would force us to cut down on unnecessary expenditures, wars etc) [quote:994f130c76]Today, I heard more disturbing
news..... A guy had been arrested for "possession of childrens' clothes"! [/quote:994f130c76] do you have a
reference to that? My house is full of childrens clothes. i
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View entire thread: OT - Cell phone makers fight resales
Posted by Michael A. Terrell on Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:38 PM Post subject: Re: OT - Cell phone makers fight resales
Larry wrote: [quote:c95461c5aa] Today, I heard more disturbing news..... A guy had been arrested for "possession
of childrens' clothes"! This makes me nervous because I collect, and sometimes buy from thrift shops, childrens'
clothes to give to my buddy's girls who have virtually nothing because of their broken home. I didn't know the Gestapo
would bust me for these size 10 Mudd Jeans or the Adidas tennis shoes with the pink stripes! I may have to ditch them
in the river! [/quote:c95461c5aa] Wasn't he a convicted child molester? -- Service to my country? Been there,
Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida
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View entire thread: Help with Aerobed frame?
Posted by Bruce L. Bergman on Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:33 PM Post subject: Re: Help with Aerobed frame?
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:31:31 -0500, me@privacy.net wrote: [quote:31258de9af]"David Merrill"
<smerrill19@mchsiDOT.com> wrote: Metal content: OP has touched on a possible business opportunity. Yes!! I've
always thought so as well! Altho I agree that losing weight and eating correct are big steps towards alleviating
GERD.... I would also say that elevating my bed head abt 6 inches has been the best thing I ever done as well Matter of
fact.... I find it more comfortable to sleep this way with GERD or without. Problem is... like you said... no one makes
a GOOD bed frame that allows easy adjustment of the elevation. I envision a space frame type bed..... made of aluminum
tubing.... kind of hi-tech looking. But very strong and light that can be adjusted in elevation and also broken down and
easily taken with you on trips such as vacations. Kind of like a very hi-tech "cot" if you will I'm not a
designer... but wish I were....as id design something myself. [/quote:31258de9af] Should be simple enough to wangle up
an adjuster out of two ball-screw linear actuators and a bed frame. 120 VAC or 12/24 VDC with an adapter. When two of
your neighbors complain that the azimuth adjuster motor is missing from their DBS Satellite antennas, we'll just grin
and chuckle... Or steal the elevation adjustment motor and scissor-jack assembly out of an old bedroom clothes-rack
with junk conveyor belt - I mean treadmill. ;-) (Set it to max speed and launch those loafers out into the hall.)
Just remember that bed frames are usually made of some rather nasty steel that makes Rebar look workable in comparison,
so welding may not work for long - drill and bolt. Oh, and as for the foam wedge - buy ONE chunk half as wide as you
need, have the foam shop cut it on a diagonal, keep both halves. Will work perfectly for His and Hers on a split
mattress like a Cal King. I get the occasional 'hot flash' if I snack too late, and I have to put out the fire by
chewing a few generic calcium tablets followed by a healthy glass of water to do some spot acid neutralization. Other
than that, knocking wood vigorously... --<< Bruce >>--
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View entire thread: Halloween projects
Posted by Ceridwen on Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:36 PM Post subject: Re: Halloween projects
Ohhhh, looks good, much better than mine did! It brought back stress lol. DD was Hermoines last year and I made the
robe (black with burgundy lining - had to modify the pattern as I could not find a Hogwarth robe pattern). I am not a
person that sews clothes! But I managed to figure things out. She also had a scarf like yours and a wand made/turned
by DH (woodworker as a hobby). -- Carole Champlain, NY http://photos.yahoo.com/ceridwen_rhea http://360.yahoo.com/
profile-Pp9n.fIyfrQ6NDNCfp9E0UU6hGPI "Terbear" <kenandteri@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:GSr%g.6$6G7.4@newsfe14.phx... [quote:836e97b0a1]Hey there everyone! Hope you are having a nice Tuesday! Here are
the projects I have been working on in between swap blocks: http://gallery.ppwp.com/gallery/album03/DSC04820 (goodie
bag) Sammy in his Halloween costume holding matching goodie bag: http://gallery.ppwp.com/gallery/album87/DSC04816
Joshua is at school & couldn't model this costume: Harry potter cape with hood & satin lining:
http://gallery.ppwp.com/gallery/album86 Now if I can just find some inspiration to make my Halloween quilt....hopefully
it will be made before next Halloween! Teri -- Terbear~Curator of the HUG Gallery~ http://gallery.ppwp.com/gallery/HUGS
RCTQ 2006-2007 BOM Gallery~ http://gallery.ppwp.com/gallery/RCTQ-2006-2007-BOM Teri's quilts~
http://gallery.ppwp.com/gallery/Tquilts [/quote:836e97b0a1]
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View entire thread: post weld cleaning of stainless
Posted by Ries on Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:20 PM Post subject: Re: post weld cleaning of stainless
[quote:2a484c4e09]How about fine stainless steel wire brushes. .006" SS wire end brush in a die grinder is the
preferred method for large Stainless fabricators and DOD people because of EPA and other OSHA considerations using
chemicals...AND it's a lot cheaper and better!!! ...really! [/quote:2a484c4e09] I have to beg to differ. While I would
not call myself a "large stainless fabricator" I do fab up somewhere between 4 and 6 tons of stainless a year
for the last 5 years or so. And if I was wire brushing every weld, well, lets just say my kids would not be wearing
shoes. Or eating much. I can have a relatively unskilled guy electropolish welds at 2 or 3 times the speed of wire
brushing them, and it is a much higher quality cleanup. Especially in complicated fabrications like I build, there are
many situations where you just cant reach the whole thing with an air powered die grinder with a wire brush in it. Plus
the little bristles fly thru the air and stick into your skin and clothes, which gets annoying after a few hours of it.
I send all my work out to a commercial electropolisher, who uses a 4'x4'x8' tank of heated phosphoric, and it cleans up
everything very quickly, and it costs me less to pay him to do it than I would have to pay an hourly worker to do it
with a wire brush. I suppose if your time is worth nothing, then it would be cheaper to wire brush, but on paying jobs,
there is no comparison. And much of what I do is very heavily forged stainless, where the surface is black when we are
done forging, and the chromium in the outer layer of stainless is burned off. You can wire brush all day and not get
down to the pure stainless again- but 20 minutes in the electropolish tank, and its bright and shiny. And it stays that
way, outside, for years. I have had problems with wire brushed stainless discoloring after a year or so outside in the
elements.
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View entire thread: [OT] Hezbollah Didn't Win -- Arab writers are beginning to l
Posted by Gunner on Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:38 PM Post subject: Re: [OT] Hezbollah Didn't Win -- Arab writers are beginning
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:34:54 -0400, Joseph Gwinn <JoeGwinn@comcast.net> wrote: [quote:6dc519e32b]It was
inevitable that people in Lebanon would soon ask if this "victory" was really worth the devastation of half of
Lebanon. Especially people who had no desire to go to war in the first place. When this started, I was surprised by how
much damage was being done to Lebanon, compared to previous times Israel had crashed into Lebanon. My theory was and is
that Israel is telling Hezbollah that while there is nothing Israel can do to directly prevent the incursions and
missile attacks, what Israel can do is make such actions *very* expensive.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008847 The Wall Street Journal, Friday, August 25, 2006,
page A14. Joe Gwinn [/quote:6dc519e32b] Because They Hate us Date: Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:57 PM
[Editor's Note: Below are excerpts from Brigitte Gabriel's speech delivered at the Intelligence Summit in Washington
DC, Saturday February 18, 2006. We gather here today to share information and knowledge. Intelligence is
not merely cold hard data about numerical strength or armament or disposition of military forces. The most important
element of intelligence has to be understanding the mindset and intention of the enemy. The West has been wallowing in
a state of ignorance and denial for thirty years as Muslim extremists perpetrated evil against innocent victims in the
name of Allah. I was ten years old when my home exploded around me, burying me under the rubble and leaving
me to drink my blood to survive, as the perpetrators shouted "Allah Akbar!" My only crime was that I was a
Christian living in a Christian town. At 10 years old, I learned the meaning of the word "infidel."
I had a crash course in survival. Not in the Girl Scouts, but in a bomb shelter where I lived for seven years in pitch
darkness, freezing cold, drinking stale water and eating grass to live. At the age of 13 I dressed in my burial clothes
going to bed at night, waiting to be slaughtered. By the age of 20, I had buried most of my friends--killed by
Muslims. We were not Americans living in New York , or Britons in London. We were Arab Christians living in Lebanon.
As a victim of Islamic terror, I was amazed when I saw Americans waking up on September 12, 2001, and asking themselves
"Why do they hate us?" The psychoanalyst experts were coming up with all sorts of excuses as to what we did
to offend the Muslim World. But if America and the West were paying attention to the Middle East they would not have
had to ask the question. Simply put, they hate us because we are defined in their eyes by one simple word:
"infidels." Under the banner of Islam "la, ilaha illa allah, muhammad rasoulu allah,"
(None is god except Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah) they murdered Jewish children in Israel, massacred
Christians in Lebanon, killed Copts in Egypt, Assyrians in Syria, Hindus in India, and expelled almost 900,000 Jews
from Muslim lands. We Middle Eastern infidels paid the price then. Now infidels worldwide are paying the price for
indifference and shortsightedness. Tolerating evil is a crime. Appeasing murderers doesn't buy protection. It
earns one disrespect and loathing in the enemy's eyes. Yet, apathy is the weapon by which the West is committing
suicide. Political correctness forms the shackles around our ankles, by which Islamists are leading us to our demise.
America and the West are doomed to failure in this war unless they stand up and identify the real enemy: Islam. You
hear about Wahabbi and Salafi Islam as the only extreme form of Islam. All the other Muslims, supposedly, are wonderful
moderates. Closer to the truth are the pictures of the irrational eruption of violence in reaction to the cartoons of
Mohammed printed by a Danish newspaper. From burning embassies, to calls to butcher those who mock Islam, to warnings
that the West be prepared for another holocaust, those pictures have given us a glimpse into the real face of the
enemy. News pictures and video of these events represent a canvas of hate decorated by different nationalities who
share one common ideology of hate, bigotry and intolerance derived from one source: authentic Islam. An Islam that is
awakening from centuries of slumber to re-ignite its wrath against the infidel and dominate the world. An Islam which
has declared "Intifada" on the West. America and the West can no longer afford to lay in their
lazy state of overweight ignorance. The consequences of this mental disease are starting to attack the body, and if
they don't take the necessary steps now to control it, death will be knocking soon. If you want to understand the
nature of the enemy we face, visualize a tapestry of snakes. They slither and they hiss, and they would eat each other
alive, but they will unite in a hideous mass to achieve their common goal of imposing Islam on the world.
This is the ugly face of the enemy we are fighting. We are fighting a powerful ideology that is capable of altering
basic human instincts. An ideology that can turn a mother into a launching pad of death. A perfect example is a
recently elected Hamas official in the Palestinian Territories who raves in heavenly joy about sending her three sons
to death and offering the ones who are still alive for the cause. It is an ideology that is capable of offering highly
educated individuals such as doctors and lawyers far more joy in attaining death than any respect and stature, life in
society is ever capable of giving them. The United States has been a prime target for radical Islamic hatred
and terror. Every Friday, mosques in the Middle East ring with shrill prayers and monotonous chants calling death,
destruction and damnation down on America and its people. The radical Islamists' deeds have been as vile as their
words. Since the Iran hostage crisis, more than three thousand Americans have died in a terror campaign almost
unprecedented in its calculated cruelty along with thousands of other citizens worldwide. Even the Nazis did not turn
their own children into human bombs, and then rejoice at their deaths as well the deaths of their victims. This
intentional, indiscriminate and wholesale murder of innocent American citizens is justified and glorified in the name
of Islam. America cannot effectively defend itself in this war unless and until the American people
understand the nature of the enemy that we face. Even after 9/11 there are those who say that we must
"engage" our terrorist enemies, that we must "address their grievances". Their grievance is our
freedom of religion. Their grievance is our freedom of speech. Their grievance is our democratic process where the
rule of law comes from the voices of many not that of just one prophet. It is the respect we instill in our children
towards all religions. It is the equality we grant each other as human beings sharing a planet and striving to make
the world a better place for all humanity. Their grievance is the kindness and respect a man shows a woman, the
justice we practice as equals under the law, and the mercy we grant our enemy. Their grievance cannot be answered by an
apology for who or what we are. Our mediocre attitude of not confronting Islamic forces of bigotry and hatred
wherever they raised their ugly head in the last 30 years, has empowered and strengthened our enemy to launch a full
scale attack on the very freedoms we cherish in their effort to impose their values and way of life on our
civilization. If we don't wake up and challenge our Muslim community to take action against the terrorists
within it, if we don't believe in ourselves as Americans and in the standards we should hold every patriotic American
to, we are going to pay a price for our delusion. For the sake of our children and our country, we must wake up and
take action. In the face of a torrent of hateful invective and terrorist murder, America's learning curve since the
Iran hostage crisis is so shallow that it is almost flat. The longer we lay supine, the more difficult it will be to
stand erect. Brigitte Gabriel <http://americancongressfortruth.com/>http://americancongressfortruth.com/
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/gabriel.asp "I think this is because of your belief in biological
Marxism. As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural patterns relating to race would cause a conflict
with your belief in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist
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View entire thread: OT - Costly drugs force life-death decisions
Posted by Too_Many_Tools on Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:34 PM Post subject: OT - Costly drugs force life-death decisions
I am posting this article for discussion in a number of groups where I think we might see some useful discussion. In my
own extended family, we have seen three individuals in the last five years affected by this trend of very expensive
treatments...many times experimental...to hopefully extend life with no guarantee of quality of life. In each of their
cases, the decision was made not to spend extraordinary resources for only limited improvement of their final days.
Your thoughts on a subject that you and your family will likely face in the future? TMT Costly drugs force life-death
decisions By JEFF DONN, Associated Press Writer Dying of lung cancer, Carolyn Hobbs tried a new biotechnology drug that
produced an unanticipated side effect: acute sticker shock. She was waiting for her second treatment in a hospital near
Denver less than two years ago, when someone from the business office marched in to warn that her share would cost more
than $18,000, since the drug wasn't insured for her type of cancer. How to decide? In her six decades, she had shared
in a long marriage, raised three children, worked in a nursing home, painted as a hobby - and wasn't ready to leave it
all behind. But she was also a careful spender who sometimes returned new clothes to the store, deciding she didn't
really need them. Maybe this new drug, Erbitux, could extend her life by a small fraction, but she wouldn't be cured.
"She was just very frugal, and she said it wasn't worth it," her husband Larry remembers. So she refused the
treatment. More patients are confronting this wrenching decision, as the latest generation of pricier cancer drugs and
heart implants stretches out the final months of advanced disease. Is the chance for several more months of life - maybe
a year or more with luck - precious enough to spend a small fortune? This dilemma is also challenging governments,
employers and insurers, who all help finance America's longer life spans and innovative technologies. Extraordinary
care for dying patients can make for inspiring medicine, but its extraordinary costs make it an increasingly debated
choice to promote public health. Many economists, doctors, and ethicists say this care too often buys too little for too
much - and that its expanding share of medical resources might better pay for screening and treating diseases in earlier
stages. Already, up to 30 percent of annual payments by federal Medicare insurance go to the 5 percent of members in
their last year of life, research shows. "People still have an underlying belief that there's an infinite amount
of resources that can be invested in health care," says Dr. Harlan Krumholz, a Yale University heart specialist who
studies quality of care. "But I think we're coming to a realization that we're going to need to confront these
issues explicitly." Maybe so, but any retreat from last-resort care still raises objections from many patients,
doctors and medical companies. They denounce "rationing" of care and defend expensive treatments for the dying
as a moral imperative. ___ Within the last decade, an array of expensive new treatments has given some patients their
first real fighting chance against common diseases once routinely called "terminal." These treatments include:
· Cancer drugs manufactured in living cells, instead of beakers. These biotech drugs target just diseased tissue, unlike
chemotherapy. Thanks to these drugs, some late-stage colon and blood cancers are no longer hopeless. · Implants that
help the heart pump blood. These devices - the most common is the left-ventricular assist - are heir to decades of
research in artificial heart technology. They provide an option for some patients with failing hearts. Some of these
therapies, like the biotech drug Gleevec for leukemia or implanted defibrillators for some heart problems, work wonders
in many patients. The trouble with many treatments, though, is that average patients gain only several more months of
life, studies have found. A lucky few may survive for years, so many seek treatment in the hope of beating the odds.
"Very few people, when told of a potential life-saving intervention, will not be willing to listen. So the question
is now: not whether it will help or not, but who pays?" says Dr. A. Mark Fendrick, at the University of Michigan.
Whoever pays, costs are up. This care costs several times more than the older treatments it supplements or replaces. A
last-resort cancer drug can cost up to $50,000 a year - if patients survive that long - with insurance typically picking
up at least two-thirds. A mechanical heart pump can cost more than $200,000, with hospital care. Reports of these
breakthroughs, which often fail to mention the price, may have intensified the distinctly American tendency to view
death almost as a personal choice, suggest doctors and ethicists. "I have two small children, and dying right now
is not an option," colon cancer patient Rebecca Dague, of Medina, Ohio, said recently. Faced with such a disease,
more than a third of Americans now would want "everything possible" done to save their lives, up from just
over a fifth in 1990, according to a poll by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press. For many on the
brink of death, the choice of desperate measures is hardly a choice at all. "It's better to pay the money than
sleeping with the worms," said Jake Rogers, 62, of Chicago, of his implanted left-ventricular assist device. His
doctors implanted a second one in June, when his first wore out after 15 months. [quote:a0b781d7f8]From their first day
of medical school, doctors are trained to do their utmost for patients like Rogers. "I think probably there's
more[/quote:a0b781d7f8] tolerance for high cost at the end of life, when all the options have been exhausted," says
cost analyst Milton Weinstein, at the Harvard School of Public Health. "I think there's a moral force that causes
us to want to do anything we can, irrespective of the cost." While doctors advocate for the interest of dying
patients, they may also be subtly swayed by earning their livings partly from providing this care. And many patients
don't fret, because they are insulated from huge payouts by insurance. Robert Graham, 73, of East Brandywine, Pa.,
chuckled when he heard the high price - up to $250,000 - of heart pumps like the one implanted in him last November. It
was covered by insurance. "I got to live a long time to be worth that!" he said. Yet the average patient in
the best medical test so far lived less than nine more months. Federal safety regulators do not regulate the price of
end-of-life treatments. They evaluate only if drugs or devices work, not how well they work for their prices. Medicare,
which insures about 80 percent of dying Americans, makes no acknowledged evaluation of cost in deciding what to cover.
It is not allowed to negotiate for lower drug prices. Its coverage umbrella sets a standard for private insurers. Under
such pressures, the $1.9 trillion spent on U.S. health care in 2004 will balloon to $4 trillion by 2015, federal
forecasters project. In that year, health spending, which claimed 16 percent of the economy in 2004, would consume 20
percent and cost the average American $12,400. Some believe the country can afford to spend even more - and that it's
worth it. Others fear a crash, with insurance perhaps turning into a luxury item. Nearly everyone, though, agrees
there's an upper limit somewhere on the horizon. "So far, we've given everything to everybody," says
economist Lester Thurow of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "We haven't made the tough choices yet."
___ Yet choices are being made every day, case by case. Some insurers refuse to cover a treatment. Doctors send
patients home to die, sometimes out of mercy. Some patients say enough is enough. Dr. David Johnson, at Nashville's
Vanderbilt-Ingram Cancer Center in Tennessee, pitched Erbitux to his brother-in-law, a 57-year-old married truck driver
with advanced colon cancer. However, the drug has barely been proven to extend average survival at all. The doctor
remembers his brother-in-law refusing and saying: "Are you stupid? I'm not giving up my limited resources."
The drug's marketer, Bristol-Myers Squibb, did not reply to repeated requests for comment. Employers and insurers are
discreetly controlling costs through premiums, deductibles, co-payments, caps, and even outright exclusions.
"Benefit costs would go through the roof if there were no considerations given to the costs," says Karen
Ignagni, president of the trade group America's Health Insurance Plans. Despite official denials, the federal Medicare
program makes subtle cost evaluations, says Dr. William Maisel, a Boston heart specialist who chairs a federal committee
on cardiac devices. "I think they are concerned about people using the term `rationing' or `withholding
therapies,'" says Maisel, at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. One way to control costs, without saying
"no," is to keep reimbursements low. For example, Medicare's $140,000 reimbursement last year for heart pumps
is widely acknowledged as below-market. "We can't say, `No,' explicitly. We say, `Yes, but,'" explains Peter
Neumann, who runs a Tufts University center on medical cost-effectiveness in Boston. Yes, but start with a cheaper
drug, get prior authorization, or make a bigger co-payment. Or, for the 45 million uninsured: Yes, but go to the
emergency room and rely on charity for extended care. The nonprofit Patient Advocate Foundation reports that nearly half
of its cases or requests for help involved co-payments last year, up from just 5 percent in 2002. "If you've got a
thick wallet or a full purse, you can get any care you want. If you don't, there's rationing for you," says former
U.S. Health Secretary Joseph Califano, who later dealt with escalating health costs as a board member at Chrysler Corp.
"We're going to have to think very hard about how to provide some of these truly exotic treatments," he adds.
___ Many now press for more systematic thinking about cost controls applied by insurers, hospitals, and policy makers.
They say medical guidelines should more strongly steer older, sicker patients - and other inappropriate candidates -
away from the most expensive treatments. Cost-effectiveness analyses should be applied, they say. One common approach
calculates the cost of a treatment for each year of life it saves. Many health economists view $50,000-to-$100,000 as a
reasonable upper limit for what public and private insurers should pay. Such calculations include adjustments for lost
quality of life. For example, a heart pump is clearly less valuable if it puts a patient in the hospital for three of
his last five months with a miserable infection. Heart pumps were first used as a temporary bridge to a heart
transplant and only approved as regular implants in 2003. About 1,000 were implanted last year, but the ultimate annual
market is estimated in the tens of thousands. Yet an analysis last year put their cost-effectiveness at between $500,000
and $1.4 million per year. Even one of their pioneers, Dr. Eric Rose at Columbia University, concedes that would make
their value "more than challengeable," but he expects improvements. "It's hard for me to justify in a
society that's falling short in basic health care," adds heart doctor Steven Nissen, at the Cleveland Clinic, a
federal adviser who voted against expanding use of heart pumps beyond patients waiting for a transplant. Dr. Barry
Straube, who heads the Medicare unit that decides what to cover, believes "it would be helpful in setting
priorities when we have limited budgets to look at cost-effectiveness." Take also the example of the new biotech
drug Avastin, which treats colon cancer for about $4,400 a month. Effectiveness? It is proven to extend average life by
up to five months. In a survey this year, only one-fourth of 139 cancer doctors felt that represents "good
value." Genentech, which makes Avastin, believes its drug prices provide reasonable value to patients and powerful
financial motivation in-house to improve treatments for a terrible disease, says Walter Moore, a company vice president.
However, he says Genentech may impose its own lifetime cap on a patient's charges for Avastin. For now, many hospitals
partner with drug companies to treat dying patients for free, especially in the early stages of testing. Dr. Roy Herbst,
at the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, says the price of biotech drugs has forced the subject of cost into his
discussions with colleagues for the first time. "If we lost $30 million a year on Avastin, those are things that
couldn't go into research and support programs," he says. Others, too, question the current priorities of U.S.
medicine. "We've prioritized end-of-life care as more important than preventive care or chronic care," says
Dr. John Santa, medical director for the Center for Evidence-based Policy in Portland, Ore. Doctors, says University of
Pennsylvania heart surgeon Dr. Michael Acker, should keep away from "high-tech, expensive technology just to
postpone the inevitable." "In the highest-benefit patient, you don't get that much benefit, and it costs a
lot," adds Alan Garber, a Stanford University doctor and economist who chairs a Medicare coverage advisory panel
and questions the value of both heart pumps and Erbitux. Carolyn Hobbs' husband disagrees, at least in her case.
Though she initially refused Erbitux because of cost, she ultimately arranged to get that drug and three other biotech
drugs for free, with help from her doctor, hospital, Medicare and the drug industry. Her husband says she managed to
keep a reasonable quality of life, even through most of her final months. She died in November. To this day, her
husband isn't quite sure how much was spent. ___ EDITOR'S NOTE - Jeff Donn often covers medicine as the AP's Northeast
writer, based in Boston
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View entire thread: OT - Costly drugs force life-death decisions
Posted by wayne mak on Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:56 PM Post subject: Re: OT - Costly drugs force life-death decisions
Best first step to not needing the drugs is to take care of what you have. WHY to many people eat shit, don't move much
and feel that theres a drug to take care of them. I do think if most Americans took better care of themselves we would
see a great savings in health care. I think doctors push too many drugs also as do drug makers (my best friend is a
sales rep for a large drug company) "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1155422056.065728.315710@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com... I am posting this article for discussion in a number of
groups where I think we might see some useful discussion. In my own extended family, we have seen three individuals in
the last five years affected by this trend of very expensive treatments...many times experimental...to hopefully extend
life with no guarantee of quality of life. In each of their cases, the decision was made not to spend extraordinary
resources for only limited improvement of their final days. Your thoughts on a subject that you and your family will
likely face in the future? TMT Costly drugs force life-death decisions By JEFF DONN, Associated Press Writer Dying
of lung cancer, Carolyn Hobbs tried a new biotechnology drug that produced an unanticipated side effect: acute sticker
shock. She was waiting for her second treatment in a hospital near Denver less than two years ago, when someone from the
business office marched in to warn that her share would cost more than $18,000, since the drug wasn't insured for her
type of cancer. How to decide? In her six decades, she had shared in a long marriage, raised three children, worked in
a nursing home, painted as a hobby - and wasn't ready to leave it all behind. But she was also a careful spender who
sometimes returned new clothes to the store, deciding she didn't really need them. Maybe this new drug, Erbitux, could
extend her life by a small fraction, but she wouldn't be cured. "She was just very frugal, and she said it wasn't
worth it," her husband Larry remembers. So she refused the treatment. More patients are confronting this
wrenching decision, as the latest generation of pricier cancer drugs and heart implants stretches out the final months
of advanced disease. Is the chance for several more months of life - maybe a year or more with luck - precious enough to
spend a small fortune? This dilemma is also challenging governments, employers and insurers, who all help finance
America's longer life spans and innovative technologies. Extraordinary care for dying patients can make for inspiring
medicine, but its extraordinary costs make it an increasingly debated choice to promote public health. Many economists,
doctors, and ethicists say this care too often buys too little for too much - and that its expanding share of medical
resources might better pay for screening and treating diseases in earlier stages. Already, up to 30 percent of annual
payments by federal Medicare insurance go to the 5 percent of members in their last year of life, research shows.
"People still have an underlying belief that there's an infinite amount of resources that can be invested in health
care," says Dr. Harlan Krumholz, a Yale University heart specialist who studies quality of care. "But I think
we're coming to a realization that we're going to need to confront these issues explicitly." Maybe so, but any
retreat from last-resort care still raises objections from many patients, doctors and medical companies. They denounce
"rationing" of care and defend expensive treatments for the dying as a moral imperative. ___ Within the last
decade, an array of expensive new treatments has given some patients their first real fighting chance against common
diseases once routinely called "terminal." These treatments include: · Cancer drugs manufactured in living
cells, instead of beakers. These biotech drugs target just diseased tissue, unlike chemotherapy. Thanks to these drugs,
some late-stage colon and blood cancers are no longer hopeless. · Implants that help the heart pump blood. These
devices - the most common is the left-ventricular assist - are heir to decades of research in artificial heart
technology. They provide an option for some patients with failing hearts. Some of these therapies, like the biotech
drug Gleevec for leukemia or implanted defibrillators for some heart problems, work wonders in many patients. The
trouble with many treatments, though, is that average patients gain only several more months of life, studies have
found. A lucky few may survive for years, so many seek treatment in the hope of beating the odds. "Very few
people, when told of a potential life-saving intervention, will not be willing to listen. So the question is now: not
whether it will help or not, but who pays?" says Dr. A. Mark Fendrick, at the University of Michigan. Whoever
pays, costs are up. This care costs several times more than the older treatments it supplements or replaces. A last-
resort cancer drug can cost up to $50,000 a year - if patients survive that long - with insurance typically picking up
at least two-thirds. A mechanical heart pump can cost more than $200,000, with hospital care. Reports of these
breakthroughs, which often fail to mention the price, may have intensified the distinctly American tendency to view
death almost as a personal choice, suggest doctors and ethicists. "I have two small children, and dying right now
is not an option," colon cancer patient Rebecca Dague, of Medina, Ohio, said recently. Faced with such a disease,
more than a third of Americans now would want "everything possible" done to save their lives, up from just
over a fifth in 1990, according to a poll by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press. For many on the
brink of death, the choice of desperate measures is hardly a choice at all. "It's better to pay the money than
sleeping with the worms," said Jake Rogers, 62, of Chicago, of his implanted left-ventricular assist device. His
doctors implanted a second one in June, when his first wore out after 15 months. [quote:fb95870211]From their first day
of medical school, doctors are trained to do their utmost for patients like Rogers. "I think probably there's
more[/quote:fb95870211] tolerance for high cost at the end of life, when all the options have been exhausted," says
cost analyst Milton Weinstein, at the Harvard School of Public Health. "I think there's a moral force that causes
us to want to do anything we can, irrespective of the cost." While doctors advocate for the interest of dying
patients, they may also be subtly swayed by earning their livings partly from providing this care. And many patients
don't fret, because they are insulated from huge payouts by insurance. Robert Graham, 73, of East Brandywine, Pa.,
chuckled when he heard the high price - up to $250,000 - of heart pumps like the one implanted in him last November. It
was covered by insurance. "I got to live a long time to be worth that!" he said. Yet the average patient in
the best medical test so far lived less than nine more months. Federal safety regulators do not regulate the price of
end-of-life treatments. They evaluate only if drugs or devices work, not how well they work for their prices. Medicare,
which insures about 80 percent of dying Americans, makes no acknowledged evaluation of cost in deciding what to cover.
It is not allowed to negotiate for lower drug prices. Its coverage umbrella sets a standard for private insurers. Under
such pressures, the $1.9 trillion spent on U.S. health care in 2004 will balloon to $4 trillion by 2015, federal
forecasters project. In that year, health spending, which claimed 16 percent of the economy in 2004, would consume 20
percent and cost the average American $12,400. Some believe the country can afford to spend even more - and that it's
worth it. Others fear a crash, with insurance perhaps turning into a luxury item. Nearly everyone, though, agrees
there's an upper limit somewhere on the horizon. "So far, we've given everything to everybody," says
economist Lester Thurow of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "We haven't made the tough choices yet."
___ Yet choices are being made every day, case by case. Some insurers refuse to cover a treatment. Doctors send
patients home to die, sometimes out of mercy. Some patients say enough is enough. Dr. David Johnson, at Nashville's
Vanderbilt-Ingram Cancer Center in Tennessee, pitched Erbitux to his brother-in-law, a 57-year-old married truck driver
with advanced colon cancer. However, the drug has barely been proven to extend average survival at all. The doctor
remembers his brother-in-law refusing and saying: "Are you stupid? I'm not giving up my limited resources."
The drug's marketer, Bristol-Myers Squibb, did not reply to repeated requests for comment. Employers and insurers are
discreetly controlling costs through premiums, deductibles, co-payments, caps, and even outright exclusions.
"Benefit costs would go through the roof if there were no considerations given to the costs," says Karen
Ignagni, president of the trade group America's Health Insurance Plans. Despite official denials, the federal Medicare
program makes subtle cost evaluations, says Dr. William Maisel, a Boston heart specialist who chairs a federal committee
on cardiac devices. "I think they are concerned about people using the term `rationing' or `withholding
therapies,'" says Maisel, at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. One way to control costs, without saying
"no," is to keep reimbursements low. For example, Medicare's $140,000 reimbursement last year for heart pumps
is widely acknowledged as below-market. "We can't say, `No,' explicitly. We say, `Yes, but,'" explains Peter
Neumann, who runs a Tufts University center on medical cost-effectiveness in Boston. Yes, but start with a cheaper
drug, get prior authorization, or make a bigger co-payment. Or, for the 45 million uninsured: Yes, but go to the
emergency room and rely on charity for extended care. The nonprofit Patient Advocate Foundation reports that nearly half
of its cases or requests for help involved co-payments last year, up from just 5 percent in 2002. "If you've got a
thick wallet or a full purse, you can get any care you want. If you don't, there's rationing for you," says former
U.S. Health Secretary Joseph Califano, who later dealt with escalating health costs as a board member at Chrysler Corp.
"We're going to have to think very hard about how to provide some of these truly exotic treatments," he adds.
___ Many now press for more systematic thinking about cost controls applied by insurers, hospitals, and policy makers.
They say medical guidelines should more strongly steer older, sicker patients - and other inappropriate candidates -
away from the most expensive treatments. Cost-effectiveness analyses should be applied, they say. One common approach
calculates the cost of a treatment for each year of life it saves. Many health economists view $50,000-to-$100,000 as a
reasonable upper limit for what public and private insurers should pay. Such calculations include adjustments for lost
quality of life. For example, a heart pump is clearly less valuable if it puts a patient in the hospital for three of
his last five months with a miserable infection. Heart pumps were first used as a temporary bridge to a heart
transplant and only approved as regular implants in 2003. About 1,000 were implanted last year, but the ultimate annual
market is estimated in the tens of thousands. Yet an analysis last year put their cost-effectiveness at between $500,000
and $1.4 million per year. Even one of their pioneers, Dr. Eric Rose at Columbia University, concedes that would make
their value "more than challengeable," but he expects improvements. "It's hard for me to justify in a
society that's falling short in basic health care," adds heart doctor Steven Nissen, at the Cleveland Clinic, a
federal adviser who voted against expanding use of heart pumps beyond patients waiting for a transplant. Dr. Barry
Straube, who heads the Medicare unit that decides what to cover, believes "it would be helpful in setting
priorities when we have limited budgets to look at cost-effectiveness." Take also the example of the new biotech
drug Avastin, which treats colon cancer for about $4,400 a month. Effectiveness? It is proven to extend average life by
up to five months. In a survey this year, only one-fourth of 139 cancer doctors felt that represents "good
value." Genentech, which makes Avastin, believes its drug prices provide reasonable value to patients and powerful
financial motivation in-house to improve treatments for a terrible disease, says Walter Moore, a company vice president.
However, he says Genentech may impose its own lifetime cap on a patient's charges for Avastin. For now, many hospitals
partner with drug companies to treat dying patients for free, especially in the early stages of testing. Dr. Roy Herbst,
at the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, says the price of biotech drugs has forced the subject of cost into his
discussions with colleagues for the first time. "If we lost $30 million a year on Avastin, those are things that
couldn't go into research and support programs," he says. Others, too, question the current priorities of U.S.
medicine. "We've prioritized end-of-life care as more important than preventive care or chronic care," says
Dr. John Santa, medical director for the Center for Evidence-based Policy in Portland, Ore. Doctors, says University of
Pennsylvania heart surgeon Dr. Michael Acker, should keep away from "high-tech, expensive technology just to
postpone the inevitable." "In the highest-benefit patient, you don't get that much benefit, and it costs a
lot," adds Alan Garber, a Stanford University doctor and economist who chairs a Medicare coverage advisory panel
and questions the value of both heart pumps and Erbitux. Carolyn Hobbs' husband disagrees, at least in her case.
Though she initially refused Erbitux because of cost, she ultimately arranged to get that drug and three other biotech
drugs for free, with help from her doctor, hospital, Medicare and the drug industry. Her husband says she managed to
keep a reasonable quality of life, even through most of her final months. She died in November. To this day, her
husband isn't quite sure how much was spent. ___ EDITOR'S NOTE - Jeff Donn often covers medicine as the AP's Northeast
writer, based in Boston
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View entire thread: Little quilts which were supposed to be quilt cards.
Posted by Maloney Empire on Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:30 AM Post subject: Re: live links to Little quilts which were supposed to
Hi Cats, Thanks for your comments. When I ironed one after I had finished it, it turned out to be very suitable for a
coaster - the batting melted because the iron was too hot after my daughter ironed her work jeans with it. The little
quilt died, went very stiff and anorexic looking so I gave it to the girl over the road who was moving to Qld. as a
memento. I double check the iron setting now. Must say though, my daughter has never been one to iron her clothes - I
thought she didn't know how to use one but wonders never cease. Regards, -- Di Maloney Please remove 1 from email
address to reply direct. "Cats" <CATS@NO.SPAM.com> wrote in message
news:45432eec$1_3@news.chariot.net.au... | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/esseco46/quilts02.jpg |
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/esseco46/quilts01.jpg | | Very cute. They would make good coasters for oversized
soup | or coffee mugs - although I don't think I could bring | myself to put a hot mug down on one of them lol |
-- | | Cheryl & the Cats in OZ | o o o o o o | ( > Y < ) ( > Y < )
( > Y < ) | Enness Boofhead Donut | http://community.webshots.com/user/witchofthewest |
catsatararatATyahooDOTcomDOTau | | | "Maloney Empire" <s1ascar@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message |
news:45432dec_4@news.chariot.net.au... | : Hi all, | : | : Here are some pics of what were supposed to be quilt cards |
but turned out to | : be little quilts - they are 5-1/5 inches square, a bit big | for cards I | : think. | : I have
made 27 of them - one each for my family Kris | Kringle. | : Hope you like them. | : | : |
[img:e978abf619]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/esseco46/quilts02.jpg[/img:e978abf619] | : |
[img:e978abf619]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/esseco46/quilts01.jpg[/img:e978abf619] | : | : Regards, | : -- |
: Di Maloney | : Please remove 1 from email address to reply direct. | : | : | |
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View entire thread: This is Impossible
Posted by Bobbie Sews More on Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:06 PM Post subject: Re: This is Impossible
Polly, so you have the problem of the innards of the biscuits bunching up after washing? Just asking cause a very long
time ago I made a 4 inch square biscuit quilt using panty hose cut in strips for the filling. It was just a baby
quilt, and after a few washings it started bunching up. I didn't have a clothes dryer at the time and just hung it on
the line to dry. Thanks! Barbara in SC
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View entire thread: This is Impossible
Posted by Polly Esther on Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:37 PM Post subject: Re: This is Impossible
Long ago, I made one with bigger squares and the stuffing shifted. I sneaked into each biscuit with a long needle,
spread out the innards and tacked the squares in the center. That took a couple of evenings by the tv to get done but
it worked just fine. This new quilt has much smaller biscuits and they are fully stuffed so (we hope) there isn't room
for shifting. Polly "Bobbie Sews More" wrote > Polly, so you have the problem of the innards of the
biscuits bunching up [quote:018242ee79]after washing? Just asking cause a very long time ago I made a 4 inch square
biscuit quilt using panty hose cut in strips for the filling. It was just a baby quilt, and after a few washings it
started bunching up. I didn't have a clothes dryer at the time and just hung it on the line to dry.[/quote:018242ee79]
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View entire thread: This is Impossible
Posted by Phyllis Nilsson on Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:39 AM Post subject: Re: This is Impossible
Oh my, did this almost 40 years ago. Used biscuits that were about 2" finished, made two twin quilts, but I
remember it took me a long time to get enough pantyhose. Bobbie Sews More wrote: [quote:befc863682]Polly, so you have
the problem of the innards of the biscuits bunching up after washing? Just asking cause a very long time ago I made a 4
inch square biscuit quilt using panty hose cut in strips for the filling. It was just a baby quilt, and after a few
washings it started bunching up. I didn't have a clothes dryer at the time and just hung it on the line to dry. Thanks!
Barbara in SC [/quote:befc863682] -- Toledo,Ohio
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View entire thread: This is Impossible
Posted by Julia in MN on Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:02 PM Post subject: Re: This is Impossible
Instead of cutting the panty hose into strips, cut the legs off. Scrunch each leg up from top to toe as if you were
going to put it on your leg and put it in the biscuit. Close up the opening in the biscuit. You may want to put a
"tie" in the center to keep the stocking in place. I've never done this, but one of my sisters started a
quilt like this about 40 years ago; I don't think she ever finished it :) Julia in MN Bobbie Sews More wrote:
[quote:3284734211]Polly, so you have the problem of the innards of the biscuits bunching up after washing? Just asking
cause a very long time ago I made a 4 inch square biscuit quilt using panty hose cut in strips for the filling. It was
just a baby quilt, and after a few washings it started bunching up. I didn't have a clothes dryer at the time and just
hung it on the line to dry. Thanks! Barbara in SC [/quote:3284734211] -- This message has been scanned for viruses
by Norton Anti-Virus http://webpages.charter.net/jaccola/
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View entire thread: Plucking a goose?
Posted by Pat P on Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:41 AM Post subject: Re: Plucking a goose?
"Shirley Shone" <nospam@allcrafts.area51.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xPbPysARe2GFFw4j@allcrafts.demon.co.uk... [quote:5367cda132]In message <KHFSg.47477$7D6.3620@newsfe2-
win.ntli.net>, Pat P eaxstitchNOSPAM@ntlworld.com> writes ricardianno@spambtinternet.com> wrote I remember the
hi-tech copper thingie, and remember going to the stores (sorry, Co-operative Wholesale Society) with my gran to buy
one. Must have been some years before 1959 when I left to join the RAF; but my gran's Co-op divi number was 469! The
milking-stool thing I remember - a very bleached out thing that my gran (a not insubstantial lady) used to pound the
clothes into submission. On the subject of geese - when we moved house in the mid 1950s the people who took over our old
council house said how much they enjoyed the jar of lard we had left behind, apparently it made wonderful chips. My gran
did not have the heart to tell them that it was a jar of old goose-grease that was used on my chest when I suffered from
very bad asthma attacks... -- Bruce Fletcher btinternetDOTcomATricardian Stronsay, Orkney www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont
I bought a jar of goosegrease only the other day, from Tesco`s. It says it`s excellent for doing roast potatoes 0
haven`t tried it yet - maybe this weekend. Pat It is expensive stuff though Pat at about 2.69 a pot, a small one at
that. Yes it is good for roasting potatoes in. Also for sautéing previously boiled potatoes in. I got a frozen goose
from Aldi last Christmas. It cost 9.99. I cooked it about 3 months ago and it yielded 3x 1lb jars of fat which can be
kept for about 2 to 3 years in the fridge. The goose itself fed 5 of us so it was a good buy. Shirley
[/quote:5367cda132] Oh yes, I know it`s expensive - but we don`t much like goose so therefore don`t cook it to get the
fat!!! We used to have a trio of geese (otherwise known as the backyard Nazis!) when we lived in another village.
Excellent guards, and we almost had a QUEUE for the eggs! Pat
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View entire thread: Plucking a goose?
Posted by Cheryl Isaak on Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:40 AM Post subject: Re: Plucking a goose?
On 9/28/06 4:41 AM, in article TULSg.72598$DB3.65053@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net, "Pat P"
<eaxstitchNOSPAM@ntlworld.com> wrote: [quote:53b1fcfd1b] "Shirley Shone"
<nospam@allcrafts.area51.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:xPbPysARe2GFFw4j@allcrafts.demon.co.uk... In message
<KHFSg.47477$7D6.3620@newsfe2-win.ntli.net>, Pat P eaxstitchNOSPAM@ntlworld.com> writes
ricardianno@spambtinternet.com> wrote I remember the hi-tech copper thingie, and remember going to the stores (sorry,
Co-operative Wholesale Society) with my gran to buy one. Must have been some years before 1959 when I left to join the
RAF; but my gran's Co-op divi number was 469! The milking-stool thing I remember - a very bleached out thing that my
gran (a not insubstantial lady) used to pound the clothes into submission. On the subject of geese - when we moved house
in the mid 1950s the people who took over our old council house said how much they enjoyed the jar of lard we had left
behind, apparently it made wonderful chips. My gran did not have the heart to tell them that it was a jar of old goose-
grease that was used on my chest when I suffered from very bad asthma attacks... -- Bruce Fletcher
btinternetDOTcomATricardian Stronsay, Orkney www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont I bought a jar of goosegrease only the other
day, from Tesco`s. It says it`s excellent for doing roast potatoes 0 haven`t tried it yet - maybe this weekend. Pat
It is expensive stuff though Pat at about 2.69 a pot, a small one at that. Yes it is good for roasting potatoes in. Also
for sautéing previously boiled potatoes in. I got a frozen goose from Aldi last Christmas. It cost 9.99. I cooked it
about 3 months ago and it yielded 3x 1lb jars of fat which can be kept for about 2 to 3 years in the fridge. The goose
itself fed 5 of us so it was a good buy. Shirley Oh yes, I know it`s expensive - but we don`t much like goose so
therefore don`t cook it to get the fat!!! We used to have a trio of geese (otherwise known as the backyard Nazis!) when
we lived in another village. Excellent guards, and we almost had a QUEUE for the eggs! Pat While we were in Germany,
goose fat was often on the table to be spread on[/quote:53b1fcfd1b] the rolls. Tasty and habit forming. Also waist line
expanding. Cheryl
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